Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

My olive groves stop me from claiming benefits

136 replies

hettyGreek · 22/03/2016 18:49

Hello,

I've lost my job after many years of full employment. I'm a single mum to two children (5 and 7) and rent a 3 bed flat.

I have savings of about £3'000.00 and the only other asset I have is an olive grove in Greece that was my grandparents and has been in the family for over 100 years. It generates no income due to location, current state and actually costs me money to maintain it. On my forms I used the valuation when I received it of about $25'000.00, but this valuation was before the downturn and it is probably only worth a fraction of this.

Even though it does not generate any income what so ever and I'm unable to change anything in order to make an income for me. The benefits office have decided that it generates an income of 50 pounds a week.

All this has been confirmed from various sources including Money Saving Expert and CAB so I'm not looking for advice on the benefits.

I'm looking on advice as to if this is fair and if it is worth me writing to my MP / doing things to try to change the system. I'm going through the process to try to get an up to date valuation, but with the location this is not so straightforward getting it valued from a source they will respect but this is in progress. Until this is sorted I get nothing bar CBJSA.

It would be difficult to sell, and I would rather not as its been in the family for a long time and has been left to me with the intention to pass it on. If I was left a piece of jewellery this would be exempt and I wouldn't need to sell it, so I think the same should happen with this.

Do I have a point about this and jewellery? Most people on Petty Gripes think I'm being treated unfairly but this is a small sample. People on MSE mostly think this is fair.

Thanks for your time

OP posts:
HarveySchlumpfenburger · 22/03/2016 22:50

I'm sorry for your situation OP, but I have to confess to a very insensitive giggle at the thread title. It's one of those that you could imagine the Daily Mail getting hold of.....

Given how regularly DM journalists borrow stuff from this site, I'm fairly certain this is going to be in there within a week.

Best thread title ever though.

holdonfor1moreday · 23/03/2016 06:00

Why don't you just say its jointly owned with your children so can't sell it?

Lighteningirll · 23/03/2016 06:20

That's a good idea Holden lie to get benefits nothing wrong with that! same Biscuit for all of those saying put it in trust or give to the children. Disposing of assets cheaply to claim benefits can you really not see that is wrong? Pinkflower of course it's a BtL just because you were left it not bought it doesn't exempt you from taking the income so why should it exempt you from incurring liabilities on said income. And sorry but if your hypothetical nan's ring is worth £20,0000 yes you damn well should sell it before claiming benefits I like other posters, sorry scrolled back but can't find you to name check, sold everything I could when times got hard before I asked for state help. This sort of entitled behaviour is why people vote Tory we need to make it totally socially unacceptable to lie, cheat or hoard and profit from the tax payer for it. And the poster who knows for definite benefit claimants with overseas assets you have a moral obligation to report that to the authorities with your 'definite' proof or posting on sites like this fuel the Tory voters disdain of immigrants and claimants.

herecomethepotatoes · 23/03/2016 06:51

"this sort of entitled behaviour is why people vote Tory we need to make it totally socially unacceptable to lie, cheat or hoard and profit from the tax payer for it. And the poster who knows for definite benefit claimants with overseas assets you have a moral obligation to report that to the authorities with your 'definite' proof or posting on sites like this fuel the Tory voters disdain of immigrants and claimants."

Very close. But, not the only reason that people vote Tory. I don't think the OP said she was an immigrant.

Is isn't fair but nor is life. Why should I, as a tax payer, supplement your lifestyle when you could sell something you own and not need my help. This is different to people who can't help themselves.

Why not spend less time 'hiding' your assets OP and instead find a job. Maybe not one you feel is fair after your years of work, but any job is better than nothing surely.

DementedUnicorn · 23/03/2016 06:55

Bang on lightening. This is why I vote Tory

shinynewusername · 23/03/2016 07:30

I certainly do not vote Tory but have been Shock at the number of posters encouraging the OP to lie and break the law. I want the benefit system to be there for people in need, not undermined by cheating.

Eustace2016 · 23/03/2016 07:46

I am afraid I agree too. We full time working women who pay a lot of tax and have no tax credits, child benefit etc are not paying all that money to ensure people with olive groves worth £25,000 can claim state benefits. Sell the grove, live off the proceeds and once the proceeds are used up and find another full time job as soon as you can.

HarlotBronte · 23/03/2016 08:24

She can't just give it to her kids to make herself eligible now, that's called deprivation of capital.

guerre · 23/03/2016 08:31

I am amazed no-one has harangued her for having a 3bed flat with two v small children. Claiming HB for a 3bed will leave you subject to the spare room tax or whatever it's called.

NameChange30 · 23/03/2016 09:26

guerre Yes it's official called the spare room subsidy I think, although commonly known as the bedroom tax. I was going to point out that if she did get HB it would be reduced because of the extra bedroom.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 23/03/2016 11:20

If she's in private rental, the spare room subsidy/bedroom tax doesn't really apply. HB for private rental has taken the number of rooms you are entitled to into account for years.

The issue with the 'bedroom tax' wasn't that they tried to align it with private rentals, but the stupid way they apply it.

BarbarianMum · 23/03/2016 11:24

I think the rule are fair - sorry. I don't think land should be exempt for reasons of 'sentimentality' - that would be really open to abuse.

Sorry for you but sell, lease or have it revalued.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 23/03/2016 11:24

Actually, that should be 'the removal of the spare room subsidy'.

FinallyFreeFromItAll · 23/03/2016 11:35

If it costs you money then sell.

Also it is very fair that it counts as having income. You can sell it and live off that money. Therefore it counts as income because you could live off it if you wanted to. You have decided not to sell it, yet expect handouts.

Do you think buy to let landlords should get benefits? Property developers, whilst they are developing?

To be frank it sounds like you can't be arsed to work but expect to have nice assets and savings and get handouts. Seriously entitled.

Lockheart · 23/03/2016 11:40

I can sort of understand where the OP is coming from. If for example it was decided my old Fiesta was worth £25k (when it's worth about £3k max) and that was used as evidence to stop me claiming I would also be pissed off.

If you don't believe it's worth £25k then get it properly valued and provide proof. If it really is worth that then I would look at selling it (in fact given it's costing you money I would look at selling it anyway). However, it may not be that easy to sell land in Greece at the moment, I really don't know. It's easy to say sell it, but the fact is it could potentially sit on the market for months or years.

angielou123 · 23/03/2016 12:02

I would sell it. If it's causing you problems I don't think it's worth you trying to hang onto it for the families sake. It's a shame, but shit happens.

blobbityblob · 23/03/2016 12:08

So for example - if you'd paid off your mortgage but lost your job and had school age dc, would you get tax credits? Or would you be expected to sell your home and rent something with the equity and live off the proceeds until the money ran out?

If the former is true I can kind of see why you think it's unfair myself.

NameChange30 · 23/03/2016 12:09

blobbity It depends whether you live in the house or not. If it's equity in your own house, they wouldn't necessarily expect you to sell it. But if it's other property you own and don't live in, you could either sell it or rent it out - so it would give you a lump sum or income. That's fair enough.

Grilledaubergines · 23/03/2016 12:12

It does seem unfair in that whilst in theory it's an asset, it's of no value and in the current Greek financial climate you'd never sell it. Get it re-valued.

molyholy · 23/03/2016 12:13

Bang on lightening. This is why I vote Tory

Haha - the irony. So you don't think the rich tory voters sign/gif valuable assets over to their children so they can avoid paying tax? Laughable.

molyholy · 23/03/2016 12:13

*gift

BarbarianMum · 23/03/2016 12:30

blobbity I think there is a big difference between being asked to sell your primary residence and being expected to sell second/holiday home(s) before claiming benefits.

betsyderek · 23/03/2016 12:56

OP I see your olive groves and raise you 3 houses in Crete which are derelict and only belong in name as the Nazis burnt the deeds in 1940 something (they also wiped out most of the family)
Also a small piece of land in a very unpleasant area of Athens. If anyone in the entire world thinks selling land in Greece is easy, do feel free to visit the town hall in Athens. It is an impossible task. I have lived in Cairo and Nigeria and they have nothing in Greek property law. And that is saying something.

Theambler · 23/03/2016 12:58

Great thread title! Sounds like you need the land revalued. Especially if your 25k value was before Greece's financial collapse. Was it 25000 euros and your threshold for benefits is 16000 pounds? Because €25k is about £19.7k according to t'internet currency converter. It pretty close, Id have thought a revaluation is the way to go, via a respected international chain?

DementedUnicorn · 23/03/2016 13:46

So you don't think the rich tory voters sign/gif valuable assets over to their children so they can avoid paying tax? Laughable.

Course they do. But at least they're making it more difficult for people to take the piss