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Original poster

My olive groves stop me from claiming benefits

136 replies

hettyGreek · 22/03/2016 18:49

Hello,

I've lost my job after many years of full employment. I'm a single mum to two children (5 and 7) and rent a 3 bed flat.

I have savings of about £3'000.00 and the only other asset I have is an olive grove in Greece that was my grandparents and has been in the family for over 100 years. It generates no income due to location, current state and actually costs me money to maintain it. On my forms I used the valuation when I received it of about $25'000.00, but this valuation was before the downturn and it is probably only worth a fraction of this.

Even though it does not generate any income what so ever and I'm unable to change anything in order to make an income for me. The benefits office have decided that it generates an income of 50 pounds a week.

All this has been confirmed from various sources including Money Saving Expert and CAB so I'm not looking for advice on the benefits.

I'm looking on advice as to if this is fair and if it is worth me writing to my MP / doing things to try to change the system. I'm going through the process to try to get an up to date valuation, but with the location this is not so straightforward getting it valued from a source they will respect but this is in progress. Until this is sorted I get nothing bar CBJSA.

It would be difficult to sell, and I would rather not as its been in the family for a long time and has been left to me with the intention to pass it on. If I was left a piece of jewellery this would be exempt and I wouldn't need to sell it, so I think the same should happen with this.

Do I have a point about this and jewellery? Most people on Petty Gripes think I'm being treated unfairly but this is a small sample. People on MSE mostly think this is fair.

Thanks for your time

OP posts:
shinynewusername · 22/03/2016 20:15

Sell it to someone you trust for £1

Er no, that's fraud (assuming the suggestion is that the OP can then buy it back) and potentially a criminal offence if the OP then receives benefits to which she would not otherwise be entitled.

NameChange30 · 22/03/2016 20:16

pink Ah I see... If you own a property (presumably not one you live in?) I guess that's different... Is it a BTL? If so you would get income from it.

I also like planning for my hypothetical children

Oldsu · 22/03/2016 20:19

The OP has also posted this on the MSE board, I think that they believe if they post on enough boards someone is going to come up with another solution and tell them they are being unfairly treated - sorry OP everyone is saying the same thing sell it or get a job

NameChange30 · 22/03/2016 20:19

LOL

pinkflowerbluesky · 22/03/2016 20:21

It's not a BTL in the sense that I didn't really buy it to rent it out. I left it when my dad died and a neighbour knew someone who wanted to move into it!

I get £400 a month from it, which is a great income supplement but if I did lose my job which I really hope wouldn't happen, but hypothetically, I wouldn't be able to live off so I do sympathise a bit with op here. I wish there was say 3-6 months grace to give you time to sell stuff or to find a new job without going under completely.

NameChange30 · 22/03/2016 20:23

pink If you lost your job you would be entitled to contributory JSA for 6 months, which isn't means tested. And tbh I don't see why you should get means tested benefits if you get JSA plus £400/month!

pinkflowerbluesky · 22/03/2016 20:24

Oldsu, to be fair, when you panic you sometimes just, well, panic. I've posted on more than one forum before when I've been 'ohmygodwhatshouldIdooooo!'

Best of luck sorting a new job OP x

pinkflowerbluesky · 22/03/2016 20:25

Fair enough with the JSA.

Realistically though, if I had small children £400 a month wouldn't be enough for essential bills and groceries :)

Hopefully I wouldn't lose my job but unfortunately the events of the last eighteen months have taught me sometimes life can catch you by surprise Sad

NameChange30 · 22/03/2016 20:29

But you would have more than £400/month if you were on JSA as well! Plus you would get child benefit.

pinkflowerbluesky · 22/03/2016 20:34

Yes, I didn't realise I could get JSA! :) Hypothetically, I wonder what would happen if I didn't get a job in six months (I've hypothetically had two children, hypothetically been sacked and hypothetically been unable to find another job Grin)

Karoleann · 22/03/2016 20:53

If you're actively looking for a new job, surely you'll have found one before a new ruling. Does your Ex not contribute?

VoldysGoneMouldy · 22/03/2016 20:58

Is this actually for real? You don't want to sell your olive grove?

People are struggling because of bad press for the benefits system, and you're not helping that.

GarlicShake · 22/03/2016 20:59

Same as happens to everyone else under those circs, pink. If your income matches JSA, you won't get non-contributory JSA. You would have to figure out to make £400 last a month, and you'd have to make a choice between moving into your 2nd house or selling it.

I'm no fan of the benefits system as it stands, but this stuff is all reasonable. If it were designed to keep everyone in the style to which they were accustomed, I'd be quids in Grin but it wouldn't be fair on folks who've always been poor!

Bottom line - we all get poor if we can't earn. Important factor - no-one should get sick, starve, homeless or live a humiliating life (which is where my gripes set in.)

Aspergallus · 22/03/2016 21:01

Why should you get benefits while you sit on a valuable asset? I don't understand.

If it's not a valuable asset, prove it. Try and sell it, get it revalued.

Honestly, this kind of playing the system actually makes the Tories sound sensible...

Gobbolino6 · 22/03/2016 21:07

I think you need to get a closer idea of current value.

DrAmandaBentley · 22/03/2016 21:12

It's not fair at all, but the system is designed to keep you incredibly poor, to the point of being destitute if you are to receive full benefits. Those who have no savings/assets and rely solely on benefits are the same people relying on food banks to survive. It doesn't matter how long you've worked, or if you ever plan to. It's a shame.

NameChange30 · 22/03/2016 21:24

pink
If you want to work out what might happen you could put your hypothetical scenario into www.entitledto.co.uk
Basically for means tested benefits they will work out your "allowance" (the income they think you need for your household, which depends on the people in it, ages and any disabilities) and compare it to your income. If your income is more than your allowance, you won't get means tested benefits, but if your income is less, you will get benefits to make up the difference.
So I guess it depends whether your allowance works out at more than £400/month - if it does you should get something in means tested benefits.
But it would make more sense for you to sell your second property and live off the equity until it runs out - so they might make you do that first.

Boogers · 22/03/2016 21:26

Didn't you post about this the other day? What's changed since then?

HarlotBronte · 22/03/2016 21:37

I don't think you're going to get very far with this OP. It's not reasonable or realistic to want to treat a piece of crop yielding land as a keepsake, which is effectively what you're saying you want to do.

That said, completely undermining myself here, I get your beef with the jewellery thing because people do sometimes use that as a way to invest and stash assets. Clearly we don't want people having to flog their dead nan's ring before they can get housing benefit, but equally it's annoying knowing that some forms of asset disqualify you from benefits, others don't. It's the same point as I made on your Money Matters thread about how you can live in a five million pound house and still get income based JSA if you've nothing else, but if you live in a rented hovel with no hope of ever buying and you've squirrelled together £16,001 over 20 years, you get nothing. If you happened to have jewellery worth 25,000 Euros, even if you'd bought it as an investment rather than it having any sentimental value at all, you'd be fine.

HarlotBronte · 22/03/2016 21:37

Live in and own a five million pound house, that is.

Oldsu · 22/03/2016 22:09

Sorry pinkflowerbluesky

This is what she posted on another forum

I have had it confirmed on Money Saving Expert that this is correct. It is due to having assets over £16'000.00. I'm seeking further advice on this as this could be incorrect and will try a few different places before I accept this as a definitive answer

She is going to board after board trying to get a better answer which she wont.

Hopefully she is putting as much time and effort into getting a new job as she is trying to get someone to tell her she is entitled to benefits

Oldsu · 22/03/2016 22:17

Oh sorry just read her post again so she is not asking about benefits - that's finally sunk in she wants to complain to her MP and change the system well good luck with that OP,

nipersvest · 22/03/2016 22:26

op, may i suggest you contact the daily mail?, a 'sad face' article is most likely the best course of action.

austounding · 22/03/2016 22:28

YY to everything PPs have said - I am to some extent sympathetic and would probably feel a bit hard done by if I were in your position (wrt the jewellery argument, etc).

But this absolutely doesn't deserve a call to change the benefits rules / writing to your MP / etc. The line has to be drawn somewhere and it most definitely should be this side of your olive groves - exempting land assets is a slippery slope, as evidenced by your own shaky argument as to why your own assets should be exempt.

Worth taking a step back and just reading your thread title again.... it sounds like a middle class meme.

I hope you find a job soon and good luck..

RealityCheque · 22/03/2016 22:40

Why didn't you 'pass it on' to your kids instead of declare it? Weird.

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