To think we should note how quickly the media suggests the causes of attrocities?

[JeremyCunt]

First, and above all, my thoughts are with all those affected by the terrible events in Belgium. I'm so very sorry this has happened.

I think it is notable how quickly the mainstream media suggests who is behind it (this started even before the event - "expect 'revenge attacks' " etc). Facts simply cannot be adequately known at this stage. Certainly there's been no time for any thorough/impartial investigation (not that the impartiality element is likely to ever happen). And yet we're being led quite quickly to certain conclusions ("The attacks come four days after Salah Abdeslam, the main fugitive in the Paris attacks, was seized in Brussels" states the BBC). I'm making no comment about the veracity of these conclusions, but I think they're yet another demonstration of how easy we - the populus - are to lead.

Organise it then sally

Or are you just pontificating on social media

Sally, passing info to authorities and working at a grass roots level is much more helpful then a protest.

My Catholic husband didn't protest at any of the Catholic child abuse scandals - he doesn't see himself as responsible. Why should Muslims feel that they constantly need to separate themselves from these people? It's obvious.

Sallying

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/muslim-anti-isis-march-not-covered-by-mainstream-media-outlets-say-organisers-a6765976.html

www.freemuslims.org/issues/terrorism.php

www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/shia-muslims-hold-antiterrorism-rally-in-washington/2015/12/06/03b2bf80-9c81-11e5-8728-1af6af208198_story.html

THEY DO.

C'mon, we all know it's not gonna be the bloody Tufty Club

I think some of you are missing the point, which is not that this isn't an Islamic terrorist attack - in all likelihood it is - but that the media have a responsibility to wait for facts rather than engage in speculation. I haven't been following the UK news today but I do think it's a harmful social trend that due to social networking / 24 hour news etc. we all think we know what's happened immediately rather than waiting for clear facts to emerge. The mainstream media is reliant on funding that is in turn reliant on audience figures, and immediate reaction, however speculative, rather than thoughtful fact-based analysis after the event is what brings that in. Re. 9/11, I remember a colleague telling me within an hour of the attack that it was the Palestinians. I mean how the fuck could that be established so quickly? I understand the mockery of accusations of tin hattery over false flag ops etc. and to be clear I really don't think it's the case here, but it has happened before that events have been mislabelled terrorist attacks in the heat of the moment.

Watching bbc and sky this lunchtime : No one has claimed responsibility and none has been attributed by news outlets.
It has been put into context of previous events in Brussels.

Not sure what op's purpose was tbh.

Not sure what op's purpose was tbh.

No nor me. Nothing has been said on the news about responsibility.

But the media didn't speculate. They stated the apparent facts.

To be fair I was only listening to the BBC but all they said, that could lead to speculation was: - it came 4 days after the arrest, onlookers thought they heard some Arabic shouting, no group has as yet claimed responsibility.

Yes Beetroot, I was trying to be clear I was talking in general terms, not about this specific event.

No one has claimed responsibility and none has been attributed by news outlets

Someone upthread states ISIS has claimed responsibility on Kurdish TV. So the facts clearly aren't all established yet.

Luis, actually if you have a look deeper into those marches

A) they're not actually anti-ISIS or peace marches at all. They're Arabaeen marches which are part of a Shia religious festival commemorating the death of an Imam in 681. They have just had a few anti-ISIS signs handed out at a pre-organised unrelated event.

B) they are Shia. ISIS, AQ etc are Sunni and would probably quite like to kill them too.

I could start handwringing lefty bingo when attacks like this happen:

1. the news should be suppressed on reliability/taste/public safety grounds --and because I would prefer that all non-complimentary news about Muslims was censored.

2. this is probably a conspiracy

3. this has has nothing to do with Islam

4. the real victims are Muslims

5. the people we should really be frightened of are the far right

In fact anything at all apart from acknowledging the fact that the religion of peace is slaughtering innocent people on the streets again.

Well, I think the OP has a point. When the bombing and mass shooting happened in Norway in 2011, there was immediate speculation that it was Islamists. Turned out that it was a Norwegian white right wing extremist who had done it.

The worst thing was the Sun, who on the front page the next day still said it was Muslims, even though Norwegian police had confirmed otherwise the night before.

Yes, sorry Louche, I should have read your post properly. I did see after I posted that you were talking about it being a problem in general terms but not in this instance.

Bill it's not being lefty and hand-wringing to differentiate between Muslims and Islamic extremists.

To do otherwise is divisive and the only people who benefit from that are the terrorists.

It is rather early after the attacks for Daesh to claim responsibility, but it does seem that the claims are being made. Though there have not been any statements from the Belgians (or the relevant services of any of their allies) verifying the claim.

But 'what we feared has happened' said the Belgian PM. Which is more likely - there being some sort of plot to mislead, or the Belgians speaking of the prospect of 'revenge' (as mentioned by OP) to warn because there is an intelligence picture behind all this? One that's being proved right.

I liked The Telegraph article linked above. It seems there was one line of thinking that he was somehow the busted one, the coward who didn't detonate, who sang to the authorities when captured and that IS in Europe was unravelling. But also:

"Salah Abdeslam had been planning more attacks from Brussels and potentially had access to weapons, according to Belgium's foreign minister.
Abdeslam claimed "he was ready to restart something from Brussels, and it's maybe the reality," Didier Reynders said on Sunday afternoon."

and

"However, others suggest he is a chameleon who has managed to evade capture for months."

BillSykes - So what would you like to happen to Muslims if you think we aren't doing enough to magically stop IS?

Because demonising entire communities rarely works well as an anti-terrorist measure.

How do you know that a group haven't claimed responsibility citing details that have not been made public?

I don't want anything to 'happen' to anybody. I would just find it refreshing if the left wing for once managed to acknowledge the fact that the vast majority of murderous, hate related violence in Europe was being committed by Muslims and had the guts to confront that with the horror they confront racism.

But they won't, because they're too busy victim blaming, minimising and excusing the attackers.

I'll add another prediction. By this time in a fortnight the Guardian will have printed a handwringing profile of the attackers explaining what a tragedy their lives were, they are the victims too, the real cause is poverty, western foreign policy, racism in Europe, lack of opportunity for non-Europeans, unsympathetic immigration policies blah, blah, blah. And a few months down the line they'll publish long puff pieces about what lovely young men they were and how kind and religious and responsible and it must all be the fault of the security services because how DARE they want to stop people being blown up etczzzzz.

Oh and they'll do another of their 'Islamic extremism poses absolutely no threat and is insignificant and we should all just bury our heads in the sand and pretending nothing is happening' pieces. That's normally the day after.

Bill - so all you want is for certain newspapers to write certain stories and not other certain stories. That's it? No other big ideas?

P.S not sure what media coverage, or what stories the papers choose to write has anything to do with the average Muslim either. We're not all-powerful lizard people, you know.

Which is more likely - there being some sort of plot to mislead

I don't think anyone's claiming that there's any deliberate plot going on. Again, the problem is a broader one of the modern media's need, largely on grounds of capturing audience share and thus advertising revenue etc., to be first with the news, even if that means jumping the gun in wrongly speculating on events. The Breivik example upthread is an excellent case in point.

I absolutely agree, Jeremy.

There's far too much of this jumping to conclusions around - like saying the Holocaust was carried out by the Nazis, or Alexander Litvinenko was murdered on the orders of the Russian government, or Barack Obama is black.

What is the world coming to when people base their conclusions on reasonable, rational evidence, clear facts and patterns of chains of events.

I think we should all be like you and agree that those lovely Islamists are actually really nice, gentle folk and get a really undeserved bad rap from the mean, nasty, biased western news outlets. And all the sheep who believe them.

Great username, btw. Very appropriate, somehow.

Islamic terrorists are not Muslims

Yes they are. And yes of course I know not all Muslims are terrorists and not all terrorists are Muslims, but Islamic terrorists are terrorists and they are Muslims. How else would you describe them?

What is the world coming to when people base their conclusions on reasonable, rational evidence, clear facts and patterns of chains of events

Yes that's fine, as long as you're doing so once the facts have had a chance to emerge, not within twenty minutes of a major event before the dust has had time to settle. Literally.

Quite right, Louche. Because there's obviously no clear pattern of Islamist attacks on Western cities (and African, and Middle Eastern, etc etc) whatsoever. None at all.