To ask what people did before formula?

[Annabelleinapickle]

There's always a BF/FF debate but genuinely what did we do before formula existed? It worked fine then, people produced milk? Personally I think it's all the devices, unhealthy crap invented that has made our bodies less able.

Aye think thats what I meant it was the generic name

This thread reminded me of this pic

I'm british. Some time ago we had a few people from Germany Spain and Italy join the family through marrage.

I'm not sure when it ceased to be prohibited and became just because the norm was nobody else had ever done it but the only expectation from woman pretty much was to reproduce and keep on reproducing until you got at least two healthy strong boys, rather oddly if you didn't it was indicative of a failing and you were either ignored and sent away, had your marrage annulled or got locked up in a sanitorium unless your husband was nice.

Obviously that's just a very basic overview I'm sure there is far more to it and it's rather more complex than that same as with most things but that is pretty much the gist of what I have been told about our family history my entire life.

Doesn't even need to be 50% didactylos! If you have nine babies and three survive long enough to reproduce, job's a good un. Mother nature gives no fucks about your broken heart.

^
But of course, women and babies routinely died in childbirth. It happened all the time - you were lucky to escape with your life. So if even surviving childbirth was pot luck^

That's is you survived pregnancy - Hyperemisis, pre eclampsia (and eclampsia), gestational diabetes ....

Another member of the family would feed them. Condensed milk and cows milk but many babies and young children died from malnutrition

One of my great grandmothers was unable to BF (I believe this was because of inverted/flat nipples). Her MIL didn't believe this and seemed to think it was very unusual not to be able to BF your own babies. This was at the turn of the twentieth century & there was some sort of formula available because that was what my GGM fed her babies.

I can't remember what brand of formula it was but it was taken off the market because it was deficient in some vital vitamin/nutrient and caused the deaths of some children. This included my GGM's eldest son who I think died when he was a toddler of a broken pelvis.

I've forgotten the name of the formula brand but it was a bit of a scandal at the time and would have been in the news.

Just to clarify, he fell over and broke his pelvis because his bones were very weak due to having been fed this particular type of formula.

Not exactly on topic but my Grandma was born in 1920 and she was a twin. I have a photo somewhere of her and her twin brother as babies sharing a bottle. It was a glass bottle shaped a bit like a banana with a teat on each end. No idea what was in it but definitely some form of milk. I've always wondered how that would work as surely the stronger twin (my grandma) would just tip the bottle in their favour?

Why are there so many harsh posts directed at the OP?

Probably because of this dumb statement: 'Personally I think it's all the devices, unhealthy crap invented that has made our bodies less able.'

Mastitis itself would have killed women. We take for granted that in severe cases the treatment is antibiotics.

Just to throw a theory about evolution in the mix here. Britain has a particularly low breastfeeding rate. We assume this is purely cultural. But what if genetic also played a part? Have we done research into what proportion of babies in the uk have tongue tie or high palates compared to other countries? Genetically it is possible and could have got more pronounced in recent generations due to more children with these problem who would probably have died in previous centuries surviving. Its also possible that families which employed wet nurses in the past and now don't due to cultural changes may have more problems.

Given that, diagnosing tongue tie and high palates in the UK is so crap, inconsistent and not routine enough (in my case DS saw two midwives and a paediatrician who said there was no problem, then a HV said he had a slight tie and a gp later also said this was the case) I'm pretty damn sure there is no research likely to exist that looks at this.

It is entirely possible that it could be a particularly British problem that goes beyond merely our social attitudes of the time and that British women do indeed find it harder than some of their foreign counterparts.

There is a whole world of research there, which to my mind, has yet to be explored and simply isn't being because there is no real financial incentive to do so.(Ironically there might be financial benefits to the NHS in the long run if there were significant enough links with formula / obesity. However this relies on long term vision, budgeting and a future for the NHS over personal insurance all of which don't exist or are questionable). The reality to me is for this reason, that despite all the hot air about breast being best no one is really willing to put the money in beyond making women feel guilty about it, to really examine the issue. The lack of political will is very telling.

This is a really interesting thread, and I wouldn't mind seeing it in Classics, for future reference

Interesting article here:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2684040/

Red

That's really interesting. Quite a few babies in my baby group had tongue ties which had to be snipped so they could be breastfed successfully.

Redtooth I often wonder if there is a genetic link to very fair skinned white women finding they suffer with more pain in BFing as well. I might be talking bolleaux here, but I know I am very thin / translucent skinned and the skin on my nipples is not especially tough, so I suffered awfully with lacerated and blistered nipples when I BFed, which ultimately caused me to give up earlier than I might have liked. I also bruise easily, burn easily in the sun etc.

My perception (and I might be entirely wrong here but it is just my perception) is that my olive skinned or dark skinned friends seem to have skin that is a bit thicker and more robust than mine, it's oilier and less prone to wrinkles and maybe that's why British women often struggle with BFing and cite extreme pain as a reason for quitting.

I also believe that early in the 20th century, it was more common for babies were snipped as a matter of routine, rather than only if a problem was found. This would mean that if in the past there was a particular issue with genetics and tongue tie then it wouldn't be apparent until this was stopped.

MrsGrady That sounds like what they called a banana bottle. (This was the first kind of hygienic bottle and saved many lives.) There were two ends but normally they would have put a teat on one end and a valve on the other to let air escape. I expect the picture was posed because it was thought to be cute rather than an actual practical measure of feeding :)

Tippy there is anecdotal evidence and folk knowledge which states that red-haired pale skinned folk experience pain differently and particularly when breastfeeding. Whether it's true or not I don't know. I don't think they've ever found any evidence to back it up, but of course pain is subjective.

well there you go Bertie! I was half expecting to be flamed for being daft, but maybe I am onto something after all!

Probably because of this dumb statement: 'Personally I think it's all the devices, unhealthy crap invented that has made our bodies less able

I don't think it is so dumb,

Lots of things that are now faily routine could have an impact on establishing Breast feeding like dummies or unnesacery use of shields, other fairly modern things like diets imposed by supermarkets could all potentially have an impact on long term health which could effect breastfeeding

You've got to admit the opening post did sound more than a little goady. The OP explained herself further down the thread and recovered it well but many people will have just responded to the original opening post before reading further down the thread.

I'm very pasty fair skinned, almost blue in some lights (damn my Irish ancestors wink]), and I have a rather low pain threshold - but I have never had even a moment with a sore nipple in 6.5 months of breastfeeding. Sorry tippy!

Tippy, that would suggest that breast feeding rates as a whole would be lower in north European countries. That's simply not the case. Norway and Sweden for example have much higher rates than the UK. You need to look at what makes the UK particularly unique and different from them too.

It might be right if you also considered the compound effect of centuries of social change, cultural differences and attitudes to breastfeeding as well as the degree to which local populations move and mix.

Its very much speculation, but there may be things that have made it more of a problem in the UK than elsewhere, that go beyond just our current support and attitude to breastfeeding, that really have not been properly ruled out.

I disagree, needasock, it was a daft notion. And hurtful. But the op backtracked and realised it.