For hoping ds will find a friend who doesn't abuse him

[MissesBloom]

Not sure if my expectations are too high here.

Ds is 3 and a half yrs old. He's always been a chilled out child, and I'm very lucky as he's very happy to listen to me or other grown ups and behaves really well. Even during the 'terrible twos' he was a breeze (not trying to be braggy but want to explain how he is). Never been a biter or one for hitting, and due to this doesn't really get how to stick up for himself.

My issue is that I struggle to find him friends of his own who aren't really really unpleasant to him. At present he goes to nursery and as he started later in the year than everyone else (and is also the youngest) we found that most mums already had a clique formed and we weren't invited to join it. The odd mums speak to me and I try to keep communication going with everyone as I want my ds to get to know the other kids too.

Anyway he has a couple of friends outside school...one of whom is awful to ds. I've tried giving her the benefit of the doubt and seeing if her behavior will change but it never does. She loves to see ds at first (talks about him all week) then about 20 mins into our play dates she starts to be mean. It will involve taking food/drinks off of him (despite him happily sharing them anyway) and if her mum intervenes she has a meltdown. The last time this happened the girls mum took my sons drink away from him to give to her dd and he was left drink less! I was obviously livid and asked for it back by which time she'd drunk the lot. I ended up taking him home in tears as everything he has she takes away and finishes. She pulls him off of anything he's playing with. Expects him to share all of his toys (and I encourage him to) but then won't give them back or share hers when he goes over to theirs. Unsure if this is normal behaviour for a 3 and a half yr old?

Have now started talking to another mum at school and her dd seems to have taken a liking to my ds. Seen her a couple of times and all was fine until today she decided she didn't like ds. Didn't want him to come and play near her and she refused to let him him play in certain parts of the little paved area we were talking in. Ds doesn't really understand all of it. He just stands there blankly not knowing what to do. The girl then decides to tell him she doesn't like him and he can't talk to her or look at her brother!

This seems to happen with a lot of kids he plays with. Mostly the girls. No idea why they seem lovely then out of nowhere just start being mean. All ds wants is to play with another child without it turning nasty. He's been dragged off of toys in soft play, bitten, smacked, pushed, screamed at and excluded in the most cruel ways at times. It doesn't help that ds is quite small too.

My question is whether or not this is normal for kids of this age and I've just been lucky? I would never allow my ds to hit/punch/kick/exclude or be mean and would expect him to apologise if he did.

Do they get better when they get older? Is it just a girl behaviour? All the mums say it's because "dd is a girl and this is what you get with girls" but I can't believe that all girls behave this way?

Would you intervene in any way if the mums aren't doing so? I normally try not to get involved too much unless he's being physically hit. If this happens I pull the other children away (or mine) and say "no we don't hit" quite firmly.

I really don't know what to expect with this and if it's just how kids learn to 'toughen up'. Dh doesn't obviously see most of this and just thinks I should tell ds to hit back whilst I don't like this idea I don't really know how else he can take care of himself when I'm not there

all 3/4 year olds are not aggressive and yes the quiet cc who have been taught not to grab, hit etc will get more than their share from the others, who are sometimes 'helped ' in their grabbing etc by their mothers! Op, i'd cut back on telling your ds not to defend himself and his drinks and toys.

OMG teenagers... hadn't even thought that far ahead. Probably best I don't may tip me over the edge!

Yeah Nat I personally wouldn't have let her get away with it. Especially as she'd done it all day (he'd happily shared all his food because she ate all her own), and giving in seems to calm the situation (for her) until the next object comes along that she decides she wants. It's a temporary fix but means that in the long term she's being taught that temper tantrums get you what you want. Hoping ds doesn't put two and two together and try that with me.

I try not to get involved in how my friend deals with it, as long as ds doesn't get upset then I don't really feel it's my place to say anything and she knows her dd best.

Its the parents not the child - if they don't do anything about it you have to stop seeing them with the children for a while.

Some of the kids in our friendship group were challenging at this age, biting shoving hitting, ours too occasionally . Its what little kids do. But every parent was on it, removing child immediately telling them that is very wrong etc. All DC between 7 - 10 now and absolutely lovely and would no more hit or bite than I would.

Bluebell you've basically said what I was trying to say but didn't manage to.

I suppose it does come down to parenting styles. I could probably be accused of being a helicopter parent. I am what I would call hands on. I watch my two for behavior that I don't like but I try not to actually step in unless I think I need to. I've been lucky with ds. No child is perfect and ds certainly isn't but his issues are with other things ( gets himself hysterical when he's over tired and we can't do a thing with him).

I guess id just like to find some calmer kids or like a couple of people have suggested parents who actually intervene when their kids need a little chat and calm down.

I agree with others here that this is common behaviour for 3 yr olds but YANBU at all to be upset by it and I understand completely where you're coming from.

DD is 3 and while not an angel by any means (she has tantrums and all the rest of it) she is very sweet natured and will happily share all her toys or snacks, always lets other kids go before her at the playground, plays really nicely and is never aggressive with other children. It's awful to see her face fall when another kid pushes or hits her or snatches a toy out of her hand. That's life though and she needs to toughen up. BUT if I saw her do any of those things I'd give her a talking to so it does annoy me when other parents do nothing as their kid behaves badly. Just because it's standard behaviour for toddlers doesn't mean parents should stand by and not tell them that snatching/hitting/pushing is unacceptable

Hoping this particular little one grows out of it because her mum is a nice lady and just genuinely doesn't know how to deal with her dd at times.
Wish other parents would step in more so that I wouldn't need to have to worry and be too involved in their play.
I'm usually quite a pushover too in the case of the kids snatching and being mean etc. I usually brush it off and say "don't worry" "it's fine" but when it's all the time I end up saying something because of the injustice of it.
Hopefully he doesn't dwell on it like i do and just forgets it

Thing is, I want DS to have a good idea of friendships and what they are like. I want DS to experience equal play so it's got some basis of reciprocation, taking turns etc rather than just being dominated all the time.

I'm also fairly easy going and probably a bit of a push over. I used to see one of the mums several times a week but it felt like all my 'don't worry it's fine' was just making it worse, plus I realised I was boring DH with my play date woes, so put a lot some distance between us.

Interestingly other parents always comment on how difficult play dates are with these two DC's so it's not just me being precious!

your son sounds very placid which is probably a bit rare in 3+ year olds. Could u back away from play dates for a bit and try some different groups instead like library groups, craft or something - may find more like minded soles.

Watch out though - dd2 was always sweet natured easy going etc. My smuggery punctured when she sank her teeth into another child's arm and laughed. They all have off days...

I have a child like your's, he has never hit, bitten etc and he is very compliant when I ask him to do something or stop something, he seems to really want to please and remember every social expectation.

It's really really not my parenting style, my child is an introvert, he is shy and the thought of being told off is enough to deter him from misbehaving, it has it's drawbacks because he can get very clingy at times and act a bit silly if we are in company, at times it's quite intense when I am trying to speak with friends and he is literally trying to climb on me to hide himself.
I was a nanny before I had children and I can confirm it's not my grand parenting it's personality type.
I find my child plays best with slightly older children, who take the lead but in a positive way.
I would recommend visiting parks near schools about 3pm 5 and 6 year old children can be particularly kind to smaller children and if a 3 year old plays with a child for 20 minutes they feel like they have a new friend it's one of their days highlights, if he has regular children in nursery it's not a big deal to not have official play dates too.

Well we actually stopped play dates with one boy. He is slightly older than ds almost 5. Ds kept coming out of the soft play to me crying and shaken up but too scared to say why. I put it down to him being overly dramatic but kept an eye after that. When I checked the other little boy was blocking ds from playing on this ride on thing and was refusing to let him go through to play with something different (teasing). I bit my tongue and let ds deal with it his own way only to hear him screaming a few minutes after. Went in to find him being pummelled to the ground...this kid was on top of ds with his knee pushing ds face into the ground . When I went back and told the boys mum she put it on ds and said he was 'sensitive'. That was the last play date with him.
I don't want ds to miss out on them entirely. Think some groups may well be what he needs so it's not so one-on-one until he is a little bigger.
I don't think his placid nature is to do with me...I have the mouth of an old fish wife according to my late grandma . I am however very specific about what I expect from ds and if he behaved in the way some of his friends do he would be given one warning and taken home if he didn't behave himself. He always has been quite a well behaved little man until I fell pregnant...then he ran rings around me for 6 months

My dd was/is exactly the same as your ds. I felt the same as you - she was the only one who would always share, and I felt it was do unfair on her.
Good news is - she's 5 now. She's the one everyone wants as her friends, gets invited on daily play dates ( we have to turn down lots), she's so popular (without being queen bee). So, the good news, this is a good personality trait, no need to try to change it, it'll come good.

Id be a bit at parents noticing what was happening and not doing anything. I'd be looking for more friends for DS.

Ahh arethere you give me a little bit of hope . So glad your dd is now happy with lots of little pals and sounds as though she's struck the perfect balance.
Yep I find it worrying gin but then I can't ever relax because I maybe watch too much! Have to force myself to take a seat and leave them as much as possible

Change Nursery ASAP!!!

Some children OP but not all are like that and the parents need to step in and stop them. You are doing the right thing to say firmly to another child is "we don't bite, hit, punch, be mean etc." Especially when the lazy parents don't seem to notice their children acting up if they can pull themselves away from their phones or conversation.

I honestly believe when children are out and they act like this their parents should take them home and tell them why they are being taken home. They act like this because they are allowed to.

Also as a parent you sometimes have to park the people pleasing, giggly "oh its ok you can just walk all over me' schtick. Often having young children to protect is the first time many women start to do this. You can firmly but kindly tell a kid to not hurt yours even if the parent is there. If they don't like it tough luck.

Also as kids get older they develop a keen sense of fairness. We have some (extremely high powered funnily enough) friends who are hopelessly wet with their DD. The DC were in another room when DD (then about 6 so well past age of being shoved by peers) came into report she had been shoved off a bed by this child while they were all watching telly. The parents sort of looked at each other and shrugged. DD announced in a very loud voice to the whole group " I cannot believe I have been pushed off a bed and the parents are doing NOTHING about it".

Muld I never realised it...I was so frustrated at the kids when in reality their parents never seem to discipline so really they've never been taught (so shouldn't be expected to know). My son was shown time and time again from an early age how I expected him to behave. It certainly helped he was happy to listen and wanted me to be happy with him. I never give in though even if it's something stupid like a chocolate when he's not eaten his lunch. No means no in our house.
Kerala it's a knee jerk reaction for me. I always say sorry...even if someone knocks into me. And as you said I had to learn to toughen up a bit since having kids but I have a long way to go. I always think i going to offend. I step in if I have no other option which I sometimes feel guilty for as I should back ds up more!
I love that your dd stood up for herself that is amazing. She sounds so headstrong! I would have wet myself entirely and been secretly very very proud.
I guess this horrid phase shall pass just like the others

I find that saying "I can see you" to a child who is bullying/hurting another is an effective way of making them stop, without actually telling them off.

Tbh, it depends what you are looking for from the parents as a lot of what you describe is quite normal 3 yr old behaviour. They are barely out of tpddlerhood. As such, I wouldn't 'reprimand' but would direct or model the appropriate behaviour, talk and explain etc.

My DS sounds very similar to your DS & we had the same issues. He was unaware that nursery children were being cruel & did not know how to react. So the other children continued to be unkind to him. DS is now 7 & it's still "work in progress".

Over the years, we have done a lot of work with DS, from telling an adult if someone hurts him, to reinforcing that hitting/kicking are not acceptable & he can shout "no" or " stop" if someone does that. Also about choosing friends with nice qualities eg kindness, sharing.

I actively avoid children whose parents don't discipline for hitting etc. As others have said, the parents are often the problem. I go for people with similar parenting styles & who will supervise their children.

Although experiences with unkind children are not pleasant, you can use them as learning situations with your DS, as he gets older eg "I didn't like that X was hitting you; I am glad his mummy told him to stop".

Last year, his school friends weren't the nicest to him & many of the parents seemed unaware/didn't supervise when on play dates.

We just avoided them over the summer holidays & He now has a good circle of similar friends.

It really is horrible seeing your child on the receiving end. And I don't like the "oh, they all do it" and shrug off the behaviour parents either. My two have never, ever hit another child.

Witsender I do expect the hitting/biting/kicking to be picked up on. I wouldn't allow my kids to physically hurt another. I would stop it immediately and would give a clear warning that if it happened again we would go home. A play date with a child who is repeatedly hurting mine is no fun for ds so carrying on is pointless. Thing is it makes no difference what I think because I don't want to discipline someone else's kid, and I'm sure other mums don't want another adult stepping in.

Sauvignon I'm sorry your little one has gone through this too. It is obviously commonplace amongst toddlers (I didn't realise this until we had playdate after play date where it would happen)but i defy anyone to watch their child be hit repeatedly and then just shrug it off, even if the one doing it isn't old enough to empathise yet.

Glad your ds has a nice group of friends now. I would be so gutted if mine was being mean to other kids and I would want to address it straight away and I'm sure you would have also. Just not everyone feels the same. I hope it improves for us in the same way.

I hate it when kids start forming little cliques and hes been deliberately excluded before which I have read recently is a form of bullying. This was by much older children so thankfully we don't deal with this at the moment. It just seems that you get nasty behaviour from all ages and it just manifests itself in different ways.

I think my plan will be to watch how the play dates go from now on, and have a break from the ones where he's not enjoying them because they are mean to him, after all the point of these meet ups are for him and his friends to have fun! Maybe I will try to take it all a little less seriously too to be fair...I sort of expected that we'd all have the same boundaries and in reality everyone parents differently (some not at all )

Not at all normal for three years olds to hit kick and steal stuff and no-one to intervene! Totally normal for them to push boundaries. Lots of what you describe is poor parenting, I would also avoid (and did) playdates with aggressive toddlers whose parents won't intervene.

OP, I wonder if your DS is in a school nursery-type setting? I found the behaviour of the children there so much worse than in private nursery, where they seem much stricter on discipline. I'm my DS's school nursery there was a group of slightly older, dominant boys who seemed to rule the roost & bully the younger ones.

Of course this is not everyone's experience, am sure there are strict school nurseries out there!!