Everyone says 'how lucky, what an opportunity' but....

[Mothpop]

I may get shot down for how ungrateful I appear...

DH's job is moving to Australia for 2 years in a few months time and we (myself and 2 DDs) are all moving. DH works away during the week and so this will be the first time I have lived full time with DH for 14 years.

We have to pack up our newly renovated home that I love and take some stuff with us whilst leaving the rest in storage. Our lovely cats and chickens will be heading elsewhere. I have always worked full time as a quite well paid, professional and I have had to give up my job. I am giving up everything - my home, my career, my few very important friends. I really feel very down about this.... but in truth I have felt down for much longer.

At the moment all DH and I seem to do is row about the move. He is tired of my misgivings and has basically given up listening to me. He's home for the week ATM but I have barely seem him as I am continuing to look after our DDs whilst he busies himself doing tasks he likes outside. At the same time he constantly goes on about the jobs that I have to do - but clearly can't as I am the childcare. Tonight we're not talking.

I can't help but think this move will be quite literally be make or break for our relationship .... what happens if it's break and I'm stuck on the other side of the world with DDs and have no support network.... ?

AIBU? Am I just a very ungrateful person?

[Zaurak]

I'm an expat. Not in oz, sadly.

Emigrating is hard - I also have the language barrier which is much harder than I thought it'd be. I have a decently paid/stressful job (currently in mat leave) nice house etc...

... And I'm incredibly unhappy and lonely. I've been here three years and I don't have any friends. None. Not a single person I can call on if I'm feeling lonely. I'm an introverted person who doesn't need lots of social contact and Im STILL going nuts.

Do not assume after two years you'll be back. I know several people who did this and are still out there.

Do not go unless you have a visa that allows you to work. Otherwise, to be brutal, you're indentured staff, not an equal partner. The trailing spouses I know who are happy either work or have partners with serious income so they have helpers etc. The ones I know who moved without a job / mega bucks expat package ended up being an unpaid skivvy - all of them are divorced/sick/living miserably.

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

www.pomsinoz.com/forum/moving-back-uk/227574-hague-convention-457-visa.html

This one is clearer. Once the children have been established as being habitually resident in Australia, regardless of visa status, the Hague Convention kicks in and you would be unable to relocate them to the UK without your H's permission. EQUALLY, if you stay in the UK with them, he is not allowed to take them permanently to Australia without your permission. (Worth pointing that out, I feel!)

Sorry to bang on, but for me this would be the biggest sticking point - you don't want to go, you might concede going for 2 years on the premise that you will return then, he might then manage to get PR and refuse to return and you WILL be stuck there with the children or risk losing them. In your position it is absolutely not worth that risk, IMO.

[Stormtreader]

Stay here, let him go, Skype in the evenings. Why should you give up your career when in two years time you'll all be back anyway?

[LittleBearPad]

Well it feels like a pretty unanimous thread, OP.

I hope you're able to speak to him and resolve this.

[TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams]

I get the impression OP that you have already given up your job? Did you tell your employer that you weren't returning from Mat Leave?

If you still have the option to stay in the UK as a single parent then the leverage is with you at present to have a conversation about his a) shit attitude b) lousy involvement in parenting his two children when he is on a weeks leave and c) your relationship in general.

You've had two children in 3 years and unless you've taken the absolute bare minimum of mat leave I fail to see why when your skills are transferable, why your career would be over. If you are in a similar situation to Overnow then I can appreciate that building a client base again from scratch will be a lot of hard work but you would have also built up a network elsewhere?

[centigrade451]

Just be careful - I have known of many MANY people that get a two year secondment that turns into a lifetime in Oz. Don't think that it is 'set in stone'.

I have been a trailing spouse, but DH always consulted me and at the time I was up for the adventure and he has always been attentive. We have been back in UK three years.... I have told DH we are not moving anywhere anymore especially now DS1 is in highschool.

Having lived in Oz for 5 years, I will say that having young children you will meet other mothers through them. Being a SAHM is much more normal in Oz. Just make sure you live in an 'upmarket' part of the city with more educated people. It will make it bearable.

Whatever you do don't live in a small town. I lived in a small town and it was like redneckville - I spent 5 years dumbing down in Oz. And they totally hate the English (well the ones with 'posh' accents). Personally I found it is the most racist country in the world I have experienced bar South Africa.

DH hated Oz with a passion after three years (it started with the brown snakes in the garden and redback/black widow spider in the car incidents). But DH is not an outdoorsy person and doesn't drink and hates sport -Oz was the wrong country for him - he is very cerebral/scholarly. He always found he had noone to talk to but me. And he was forever 'forcing' DSs to speak with an 'English' accent as he could not stand the Australian accent.

For us it made our marriage stronger as DH just could not relate to anyone in Oz so we became 'best mates'.

Personally I was able to make friends but it took about four years to be able to call anyone a friend- Australians are super friendly but becoming friends is a different ball game - it takes time. Just as soon as I made real friends, we left Oz!

I am just glad that we moved back to UK finally. Three years on I don't miss Oz at all and unbelievably I LOVE the weather in UK compared to Oz - but I have never liked hot sunny weather.

[curren]

It absolutely can be that hard to bring kids back to the UK. (And worse)

Thank you, I don't have any experience of it so wasn't sure.

[Scone1nSixtySeconds]

I know that I was very lucky - I went to and from Australia with the DC on my own without any difficulty (dh always flew on different flights).

I was told that by flying back to the UK on the return flight of the ticket (iyswim) I was effectively showing customs/passport control that their home was the UK. May be wrong though.

[Schwabischeweihnachtskanne]

Scone I think getting the kids onto the plane is only the first hurdle - those four Australian/Italian girls were that somebody referred to were deported back to their father in Italy after their Australian mother got their fathers consent to take them to visit her family in Australia and then didn't return to Italy with them at the end of the holiday. They were deemed to be ordinarily resident in Italy so they were shipped back there as the father had joint PR and hadn't given them permission to move permanently (it works both ways of course, its not just Australia keeping all the kids! :o )

[Schwabischeweihnachtskanne]

"They agreed to joint custody of the girls and
that the girls would reside mostly with their
mother, spending time with their father one
afternoon a week and each weekend.

Soon after agreeing to the separation
arrangement, the mother decided she wanted
to relocate permanently to Australia with
the girls. In 2010, she was able to secure the
father’s consent to the issuing of passports for
the girls, on the basis that she wanted to fly to
Australia with them for a one-month holiday.

The mother booked return airfare tickets,
but said she did so because it was cheaper to
book return airfares than one-way tickets. They
travelled from Rome to Brisbane on 23 June
2010. It was the girls’ first time in Australia.

After the one-month holiday, the mother
failed to return the girls to Italy, prompting
the father to invoke the Hague Convention. "

familylawmattersaustralia

The girls were born in Italy, but as the OP's children are so very young that after 2 years Australia would be the only home they really know, and a court could easily agree that is where they are ordinarily resident after 2 years.

[SecretlyChartreuse]

PM'ed you my experience. (It's a little to outing to put on the thread)

But in summary, I pulled out of my own opportunity of a lifetime with weeks to spare and it was the right decision.

[Movingbackhome]

I think there's been a lot of hysteria on here. We're talking two years.

OP I understand your concern over career. That sounds like your biggest issue and one you need to give the most thought. Your husband also needs to be supportive of this and understand that it is a major worry for you. If he's not, then perhaps that signals the end of the marriage because that's pretty fundamental.

I am a "trailing spouse" and have been in SE Asia almost four years. We were supposed to be here for one.

At first I did find it challenging. But four years on we are loving it. No long commute...no freezing and dark winters...kids are little fish in the water. They are loving school and doing great at sports because they are outside so much. We socialise more because we have pool parties/boat trips/bbqs/short trips away. The cultural diversity is wonderful and the kids speak some Mandarin (not as applicable to oz - my major reticence for going there would be the racism).

I have a close circle of friends here. Closer than home. Everyone here is in the same boat so you build strong friendships quickly. You rely on each other and you feel like they are family.

I was ready for a career change anyway, and did some freelance work (I'm a graphic designer but wanted out of corporate work).

I have taken two courses since being here, as well as having a third child. I have set up a small art print business and could not be happier. I wouldn't have been able to do this back home. I wouldn't have had the time or opportunity.

Here I work when I want to. I help at school galas, field trips and extra curricular activities. I take my kids to swimming and music and gym class. I meet friends daily.

I was against coming here at first. Now I'm worried about adjusting back to the UK! I think attitude is everything. I decided to be positive and put my heart into it, even though I knew my career would definitely suffer. I am a risk taker by nature and wanted to experience living in another country and meeting new people...the kids too..and I'm glad I did.

Just to be a lone positive voice on this thread :-)

[oldlaundbooth]

Are you there, OP?

[Lweji]

I think there's been a lot of hysteria on here

Maybe you should move house then.

[AcrossthePond55]

If you're still reading OP, perhaps you could suggest that he go (if the opportunity is that great) and that you will follow in 9 months (or so). Then arrange an extended holiday at about 7 months. You should then be able to judge his behaviour/attitudes and whether or not he's formed friendships that you can integrate with (i.e. married couples/men rather than single men). You should also be able to get an idea of whether or not he's wanting to stay permanently. I know it's only a temp assignment, but these things can have a way of either being permanent or of him finding a job with an Oz company in order to stay.

[Baboooshka]

Here I work when I want to. I help at school galas, field trips and extra curricular activities. I take my kids to swimming and music and gym class. I meet friends daily.

This is nice. As a former trailing spouse myself, I assume the price is:

• you don't have the individual legal right to stay in this country, independent of your DH's career decisions/developments. If he gets sacked, you all go home. If he decides to quit, you all go home.
  

• you work a little, but are predominantly dependent on DH's income.
  

• in the event of a difficult divorce, you do not automatically have the right to remove your own children from the country. You may concurrently lose your own legal status in that country.
  

I don't care how nice the weather is: these are the three harsh realities which should make anyone think twice before relocating overseas with a relationship where they already feel ignored, used or disrespected.

[waitingforsomething]

Hi Op. Just to say I have just arrived in Singapore under the exact same circumstances although it's only 1 year. I gave up my job which I liked, my support network with my two kids and access to my family for my husband. Everyone said it would be a great opportunity here but I didn't want to come either.
It's quite interesting to be elsewhere but it is uncomfortably hot, really polluted and jet lag has nearly killed me off with two kids.
I wish I had put my foot down a bit more heavily as at the moment I am lonely and it is impossible to get work in my field. Sorry tgis won't make you feel better but if you aren't sure then don't do it. Your happiness has equal value to your DH.

[Mothpop]

Hello everyone, I'm still here. Thank you again for everything.
I've had a sleepless night considering it all. Once DD1 was off to nursery this morning DH and I had a big row followed by a much more sensible talk. I do wonder whether he is also pretty worried about this and is blinded to everything else around him because of it. Communicating effectively would be of benefit …
Firstly, I must say that there is no possibility of this job being longer than 2 years - he/we will return to the uk for his next post in 2018 (it won't be long until we find out what this will be). I know everyone says to be careful but there is no possibility of him being poached/extended etc etc because of the nature of his work. This is pretty much the one thing I can be sure of. I will not have a problem with a work visa although staying in my current line of work will be pretty tricky. I have already had to give up my job as I have to give 3 months notice to leave and started mat leave 1 month before DD2 arrived.
DH has agreed to couples counselling. For me this is the most important thing. If DH starts to understand then I may be getting there. I am also seeking some legal advice. We are going in slightly unusual circumstances and so legally things may also be different. I will check.
Thank you, again.

[WishToBeWell]

Has just dawned on me. Your DH works for the Government doesnt' he?

That and the fixed postings maybe do put a slightly different slant on some of the risks that have been discussed vis DC, but the rest remains just as valid.

Please, only proceed if it is what you WANT to do

[Mothpop]

That's right wishtobewell. I'm going to check the legal situation all the same.

[MattDillonsPants]

What's your line of work OP? You might actually find some great opportunities for yourself here in Oz. For instance, I was and still am a copywriter...freelance...when I was in the UK.

I had work in the UK but never enough. Here in Oz I have a LOT more. My CV is more admired here, having worked for the BBC gives me a lot of kudos here; also my scanty social media management experience counted for a lot here too and I've been given more opportunities in that field. I now freelance for a large organisation as social media manager which wouldn't have happened in the UK.

[Glastokitty]

I agree with people saying you may find your work situation may improve. I have found Australia a much better place to work than Ireland or the UK.If you are flexible and a hard worker you can go a long way here!

Also a lot of people have said how lonely they are after emigrating, although one other poster mentioned my experience, that it is quite easy to make fellow expat friends as everyone is in the same boat. There are always conversations to be had about visas, schools, where to buy cheap cars and furniture etc. Its a little harder to make friends with the locals, but if you join a sports club, or start going to the local pub you soon meet people. You do really have to put yourself out there though.

So, if you do decide to give it a go, good luck, but please seek legal advice regarding the Hague Convention etc. And I do recommend working at least part time if you can, otherwise its easy to get isolated. And be kind to yourself, emigrating is the most stressful thing ever( off the bloody scale), but it might be amazing! Good luck!

[Rubygillis]

I moved to Aus 9 years ago, not as a trailing spouse, both DH and I worked although now I don't as I have two young children.

If it's just two years and you can work on your relationship, it is a great place to live. See it as an opportunity to explore this part of the world - see the Whitsundays, Sydney, the barrier reef, the snowey mountains, Tasmania, Uluru as well as New Zealand, Fiji, Tahiti etc.

I haven't struggled to make friends at all, I have a lovely group both from when I had babies and now from school and pre school. You have to throw yourself into it but you will find plenty of Aussies as well as other nationalities who are friendly, welcoming, kind and fun.

We go to the beach almost every weekend in summer (and winter!) and go bush walking, cycling, our life is full of outdoorsy things that we all love. There are millions of things for children to do - pools and soft play are much less busy than in the uk (in general) and there are all sorts of groups - music, football, gymnastics, tennis, nippers, anything you could want to do. And there's loads of lovely free stuff to do with excellent playgrounds and did I mention the beach?

In 9 years I've only seen two snakes and one red back (we get the house sprayed for pests) and the wildlife is fascinating and amazing - cockatoos in the garden, rainbow lorikeets, lyre birds, parrots as well as kangaroos, huge butterflies, lizards. And the sky is huge and blue. I also feel that people are much friendlier towards children - you get friendly understanding looks if they play up and there's so much room for them to run around that you don't feel like you're getting in people's way.

Good luck - it is a brilliant place to live.

[MattDillonsPants]

Ruby God we've had about 6 redbacks and even more white tips in just 6 months! We've also had a tonne of nice lizards though....plus Kookaburras and kangaroos...not to mention the mad parrots and amazing birds in general. We haven't sprayed as we're paranoid about chemicals.

I agree that the attitude to children is VERY different here. There's a lot more relaxation around them making noise or answering back...when I first got here I was shocked at how PRESENT children are! They're expected to be silly and noisy somehow.

[SavoyCabbage]

People were always telling me how much they would love to live in Australia like me. I would say something like

'oh you should! We will help you. This is the visa you should get and I've a friend, Lucy who is a nurse like you/hairdresser like Tom/taxi driver like Jane so we can help you out finding jobs too. You can stay with us when you move out. It will be great. I'll email you the visa forms now'

Then they would say 'oh but we've got my family to think of. And I wouldn't want to screw my career up'.