Everyone says 'how lucky, what an opportunity' but....

[Mothpop]

I may get shot down for how ungrateful I appear...

DH's job is moving to Australia for 2 years in a few months time and we (myself and 2 DDs) are all moving. DH works away during the week and so this will be the first time I have lived full time with DH for 14 years.

We have to pack up our newly renovated home that I love and take some stuff with us whilst leaving the rest in storage. Our lovely cats and chickens will be heading elsewhere. I have always worked full time as a quite well paid, professional and I have had to give up my job. I am giving up everything - my home, my career, my few very important friends. I really feel very down about this.... but in truth I have felt down for much longer.

At the moment all DH and I seem to do is row about the move. He is tired of my misgivings and has basically given up listening to me. He's home for the week ATM but I have barely seem him as I am continuing to look after our DDs whilst he busies himself doing tasks he likes outside. At the same time he constantly goes on about the jobs that I have to do - but clearly can't as I am the childcare. Tonight we're not talking.

I can't help but think this move will be quite literally be make or break for our relationship .... what happens if it's break and I'm stuck on the other side of the world with DDs and have no support network.... ?

AIBU? Am I just a very ungrateful person?

Can't see any redeeming features about this man. Certainly none that would make me give up my home, family, career, country!

Oh and there are lots of men who work away, work long hours, are very devoted to their work, and still manage to communicate respectfully with their wives, show appreciation, and conduct equal relationships.

timelytess, that won't work if he decides he likes it and wants to stay, as many people do. The OP may not able to leave Oz with her kids if her husband objected, as they might be said by a judge to be habitually resident.

you're not the OP though overnow . Are you?

Jessie I don't think she is but, that's true for a lot of people.

Look at people taking mat leave. It's often very damaging to careers. In a lot of jobs two years is a long time.

I think you have had some very good advice. I moved to Oz, 10 years ago, like others on here I married an Australian man and followed him over. Whilst I now love it here it did take me a long time to settle in and dh was very supportive (some of the time). Also I had HUGE doubts before we left, it is an enormous thing to leave your home, family and friends.

I think the experience could be amazing - if you see it positively and your dh isn't such a dick a career break for you, or if you can work within the terms of your visa then it's a chance to try something new, the opportunity to explore an amazing country, 2 years is a very short time in the great scheme of things.

However as you're having doubts about your dh now then relationship counselling sounds like a very positive move. As others have said, a 10,000 mile move from family etc is very touch and he sounds like he is pushing you into a position where you have given up everything for his benefit. At least he needs to recognise that your view is equally valid.

Do your research about the Hague convention - I think people are being a bit hysterical about your options within the 2 years. You will be on a time limited visa, you are not permanent residents - your permanent place of residency will be the UK not Australia. However, if your dh and you do decide to make a permanent home in Oz then this will (obv) change.

Why would you have to give up your career permanently - 2 years out of a career with young children shouldn't be a deal breaker for future employment, surely - particularly as on your CV it will show you were in another country at the time.

Good luck with whatever you decide. You absolutely have the right to have your voice heard in this decision you know. Your feelings and opinions are equally valid.

But it's not universally true curren.

Is it that hard to bring the children back if they are UK citizens?

But it's not universally true curren

I don't think she/he said it was

I would be extremely unhappy about giving up my career to massive enhance DH's. To me, that would be an inequality too far. I would be uncomfortable with DH having the balance of power to that extent. Sorry.

DB is an expat husband and very unhappy. He followed his wife's career to Australia 7 years ago. He's tried to work professionally, but it hasn't really taken off. He's counting the days til his stepson leaves school, at which point he says he'll be on the first plane home, whether she is or not.

curren my point is that OP may be being a little over- pessimistic about the effect on her career, given that she's clearly already very down on the move (with good reason). A little more detail from her may allow others to advise from experience that all may not be lost and challenge this catastrophic thinking. Others' experiences aren't relevant.

Sorry, I meant oyhers' experiences aren't relevant unless they know how similar their situations are to the OP's.

Another 'trailing spouse' here saying don't go. It's tough enough on us when we have strong marriages.

Re The Hague Convention stuff - International law states: when you arrive in a new country with the intention of staying, the ‘habitual residence’ of your child shifts to the new country. It's vague enough to be exploited. And sadly, it very often is.

Check out Expat Stuck Mums, and this link gives you a 'pre-emigration contract' and more info www.expatstuckparent.org/pre-emigration-contract I can't say for sure if it is legally binding but it is a start. look further through the website for info.

And talk! You must discuss all this in depth with your husband.

Have you looked at the HR policies at your work? Career break? Parents leave? This can buy a lot of time of your work sometimes without commiting to quitting.

Don't go. your marriage is likely to end, so let it end while you're at home near your friends and family, with your dcs, and in your good job. Let him go. He sounds like a dick.
(Easy for me to say, but I know he's your dick so it's not so easy for you)

If you want to go to Relate, and sort this out, I think you should go into this from the position that: my husband and I want to live in two different countries for at least two years. How do we communicate about this and work through it? (i.e. - put it out there that you do NOT want to go and it is NOT about you being made to go and somehow feeling ok about it)

I think if you let him go alone and leave it open that he might come back to you, your marriage has a better chance of surviving than if you go unwillingly and lose everything. (In order for your marriage to survive, he will have to accept that you are his equal and he cannot order to you give everything up for his convenience - this may be where counselling can help - but he may not be able to do this. Far better that you find this out at home with your children with you.)

Like LongdistanceI have been there and done that.

Our relationship was ok before we left, not amazing. He has a high powered job and was asked for as a secondment to Australia. 2 years.

We had been in Brisbane for 12 months when his role moved to Perth. That's about 4000 miles. He would come home once a month for a weekend, there was no money to assist us to move over - we had a two year contract on a house that he said was unbreakable. It was shit.

I am stubborn I managed to negotiate a way out of the contract, packed up the DC and drove across Australia- doing the last thousand miles by train.

Dh was not there to meet us - he had a meeting.

Anyway, the two years came to a close, I packed up the kids stuff and went to pack his and was told he had to finish the project first.

I came home with the DC without him thank fuck he was there a further 2.5 years, visiting us 3 times a year for a fortnight or so.

I fantasised about divorce but came to the conclusion that it would change nothing, so what was the point.

He finally came back to the UK last July, and I cannot tell you that it has been easy. The levels of resentment I feel are outrageous. We lost a couple of family members while he was away and he couldn't get back. I had major spinal surgery (to prevent paralysis - that kind of major) and he couldn't get back. My dearest ds was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes while he was home for one of his stays - ds had been discharged from hospital for 3 days when he went back again.

I basically had a nervous breakdown with the stress of it all.

I normally suggest having your eyes open on other threads about moving to Oz, it can be a beautiful place and some of the people are really lovely, but in your case,

DON'T DO IT.

Oh and he has PR now (of course) and so do the DC. I have told him that we will not enter Australia for as much as a holiday until it is no longer valid.

Dear OP, Relate gets very mixed reviews these days. Only consider it if you're prepared to stick to your guns like mad - express your suppressed feelings strongly, and demand that they aren't overridden in the discussion.
Oh, and don't go to Australia. You don't want to.

Yes, the whole Hague Convention thing is a big issue, and they pursue it aggressively. There was a big case a couple of years ago - 4 Australian born girls, Italian father, he went to Italy, the mother came back to Australia and brought them with her, then refused to return them. They were hunted down and returned to Italy without their mother.

Once you contravene the Hague Convention, that's you in the wrong, and potentially facing criminal charges - then guess what? If you get a criminal record, AND your children are returned to Australia, you are unlikely to be able to get a visa to stay in Australia, possibly not even to visit, so seeing your children will be reliant on them coming to you in whichever country you are (UK in this case). It NEEDS to be considered, gone into very carefully and checked out thoroughly.

The OP hasn't said what her career is. I had one back in the UK, I left it; if I went back to the UK, I would have to start from scratch again because I was self-employed and had a list of clients, who will now have moved on. I can start again here in Australia (when DS2 goes to school) but it will take time to build it up again to the level I had it in the UK, if I ever get there given the current state of the economy. I probably couldn't get it back to where it was in the UK at all now, given the way the UK economy is going!

Fuck that! You know they have actual tarantulas in Australia, right? And anyone who thinks of telling me that they're not the deadly ones, save your breath; if I lived on the same continent as wild tarantulas, I would wish I was dead.

I live in a Scottish city. My dear, wonderful, clever best friend gave up her career and home here to follow her spouse to another Scottish city.

So now she lives two hours away. She's doing great but my god she's sacrificed so much. And guess what! Hubby can't be arsed doing his own laundry! I could have written the script.

How anybody does this across continents and time zones is just beyond me. Don't effing do it. Just don't.

What stage are you at OP? Have you actually resigned from your job already, or just told them your plans?

No-one has died from a tarantula bite in Au, that I can find. So stop being silly, AliBongo

www.pomsinoz.com/forum/news-chat-dilemmas/189716-hague-convention-residency-457-visa-questions-help-needed.html
This is an old thread, it asks the pertinent question but gets a mixed response. You absolutely NEED (sorry, again) to talk to someone with the legal knowledge about this to find out your position, should you decide to leave with your DC, without your H, IF you go in the first place (which I'm still saying DON'T GO! to)