Everyone says 'how lucky, what an opportunity' but....

[Mothpop]

I may get shot down for how ungrateful I appear...

DH's job is moving to Australia for 2 years in a few months time and we (myself and 2 DDs) are all moving. DH works away during the week and so this will be the first time I have lived full time with DH for 14 years.

We have to pack up our newly renovated home that I love and take some stuff with us whilst leaving the rest in storage. Our lovely cats and chickens will be heading elsewhere. I have always worked full time as a quite well paid, professional and I have had to give up my job. I am giving up everything - my home, my career, my few very important friends. I really feel very down about this.... but in truth I have felt down for much longer.

At the moment all DH and I seem to do is row about the move. He is tired of my misgivings and has basically given up listening to me. He's home for the week ATM but I have barely seem him as I am continuing to look after our DDs whilst he busies himself doing tasks he likes outside. At the same time he constantly goes on about the jobs that I have to do - but clearly can't as I am the childcare. Tonight we're not talking.

I can't help but think this move will be quite literally be make or break for our relationship .... what happens if it's break and I'm stuck on the other side of the world with DDs and have no support network.... ?

AIBU? Am I just a very ungrateful person?

[VimFuego101]

I'm glad you're getting legal advice. If you separate and he decides to stay out there, you will not be able to bring your children home without his permission. Australia is well known for its strict rules on this.

[LyndaNotLinda]

I was the child of this kind of marriage in this situation and it wasn't fun because my mother was utterly miserable*. But I think you can put things in place to minimise the potential of you feeling like that. If you think there's no way out of this:

I totally agree that you need to get the communication issues sorted before you go

Can you put steps into place to ensure that your career isn't over while you're away? Could it be a long sabbatical?

Can you start making virtual friends through shared interests before you move so you won't feel so isolated?

Good luck - it may be absolutely amazing. But if it isn't, two years is really no time at all.

*I'm not blaming my mum for this in any way at all - it was a crappy situation and my dad didn't handle it well at all

[Canyouforgiveher]

I would be very very careful here, OP.

Your dh's current employer has the plan that he will be back in 2 years but as MattDillon says, he could find another job, he could be headhunted-and if he is, it is entirely possible you will be stuck in Australia because your children are resident there.

If your relationship were good, I wouldn't worry so much but it doesn't sound great. I moved countries for my dh's job-giving up my own professional career at the time. It was bloody hard and we didn't have children so I could immediately start working (I had a work visa-do you?). My dh understood how hard it was for me, never shut me up when I complained, listened, was grateful etc. and it was still hard.

the trailing spouse thing is also very hard. DH walked into a job which had recruited him, same job as he had back home. Several colleagues were from our home place and knew him professionally. It was all very much the same-and he was welcomed/parties/etc. I was the trailing spouse. I had to find my own job, my own colleagues, my own friends with not one iota of support from anyone. I did it-and I realise now that I am more resilient than him in many ways because I did it myself-but I would have found it very very hard to do with 2 tiny children.

Your moment is now OP. If you leave and go to australia your dh will continue in his normal mode and you will be at home on your own managing 2 small children with no job. If you set some conditions in place now before you go it might be better.

Sorry for the long post- emigrating for my much-loved DH was very hard. Frankly, I wouldn't do it-even for 2 years-if I felt the relationship was dicey.

[ExtraHotLatteToGo]

It's not too late to say no, and I think you'd be mad not to.

'He's given up listening to me'.

Jesus wept. You're sacrificing everything and he's acting like you need to just shut up & put up?!

This is not going to get better in Australia. You'll just also be without your friends, family, home AND career.

You won't be able to 'just come back' if he says no to you bringing the DC back. Two years goes quickly in hindsight, but it's fucking forever living it if you are unhappy.

I know so many people that went to Australia 'definitely just for two years' who wanted different things at the end of it and I've never known the 'transferred' partner not to be able to get another job there if they wanted it.

Even if you got a legal document written up (and tbh I don't know if you even could) about bringing your DC back here at the end of the two years, life will have changed. They'll be settled in school, they'll be used to their Dad living with them all the time etc. Would you be prepared to drag them back here crying for their Dad & friends? It will be bad enough if you all same back as one happy family unit, but like that?!

Then, there's your career. It's bad enough sacrificing that in a marriage where things are going well..it's (IMO) a really, really, REALLY bad idea in a rocky marriage. You NEED your career.

It's up to him what he chooses to do about it. Remain here with you and the kids & tell them he's not going, or go alone for a short time until they find a replacement, go for two years traveling back when he can, go & that's that. It's NOT too late for him to tell them no. Inconvenient, embarrassing, frustrating...but possible. Your family SHOULD matter more to him, that inconveniencing work.

[LyndaNotLinda]

I'd actually like to retract my post because of the DC in Australia rules. There is no way I'd move there with children and a wobbly marriage

[Bogeyface]

I agree with the others that you should stay, he should go and you take it in turns to visit.

If he decides your marriage is over based on that, then you know that his priority was always him rather than you as a couple.

[WishToBeWell]

Mothpop Tue 15-Mar-16 22:59:28
Thank you, everyone.
This is definitely just for 2 years.

OP, you don't KNOW this - it's simply the basis of all as it stands at present. If he is successful enough in his field to be seconded to the other side of the world, then it not remotely impossible he'll be headhunted etc. And in 2 years, your eldest DC will be 'settled' at school and you won't have a leg to stand on if you want to return home.

Even setting aside the mammoth move, I too am shuddering at the idea of you giving up your career and financial independence - way way too much experience of people (almost always female) doing this, things then going tits up and then the horrific position of being financially dependent upon someone you may then - given gone tits-up - be on the worst of terms with at best, or EAbusive including financial at worst.

I don't know you but my gut is filled with dread for you right now, please proceed with absolute caution and only after Relate, and after a locked down legal agreement vis what would happen re DC in event of marital estrangement when over there.

Everything you have posted has red flags just screaming out

[AnyFucker]

You have been warned.

At least go into this with your eyes open. I find it difficult to countenance that you didn't know about the legalities around not being allowed to bring dc back to the UK in the event of a split. Have you done any research at all ?

Giving up your career and leaving yourself at the financial mercy of a man who sees you as no more than a slightly whiny employee would be a huge mistake even with the cushion of supportive friends and family around you. But thousands of miles away with only His Lordship to lean on ? Madness.

[Bogeyface]

Does anyone remember a similar thread where the OP really didnt want to go, the DH was ignoring her and arranging emigration anyway and she was going along with it because he would hit the roof if she didnt?

Was a while ago now, but I often wondered what happened to her. I hope she got the balls to say no, but I suspect she didnt.

[Bogeyface]

Remembering more...he had applied for visas "just in case" and she went along with that because it didnt mean that they were actually going. Then there was a trip over there for property viewings (possibly, may be misremembering) and she went along with that.

[WishToBeWell]

Can see x-posted with others vis the 2 years thing and many of us are singing in chorus here OP.

One other thing you should take note of IMHO - you have many posts here that are quite lengthy, that posters will have invested time in in a way they probably don't usually where most posts are 2-4 lines long, that they/we are trying very hard to communicate stuff to you. Can you at least clock that difference to the average post on MN and 'hear' what that speaks of?

The level of both care and shared disquiet - and from total strangers - is incredibly telling.

[AnyFucker]

Yes, bogey

That thread and the woman who wasn't allowed in her own garage were two of the most headfucking threads I have banged my head against my phone screen about.

This one could also run and run.

From what I can remember, coerced but drippy as fuck Australia woman just went along with everything despite knowing she was being manipulated. Fuck knows how that turned out.

[lorelei9]

Own garage?

OP add me to those saying you can't guarantee it will only be two years, anything could happen.

[LittleBearPad]

I followed DH abroad for only 4 months with a toddler and was very unhappy. I resented my DH who was working very hard during the week but he had company, something to do. It was a very difficult time and we were doing fine before we went.

If you do go then don't 'travel light'. Take whatever you need to make your house there your home.

Do think about working too. You need a way to meet people and build your own life.

The children custody thing would worry me so good to investigate that first.

Insist that he talks to you about this properly. Better to rethink here, than there.

Good luck.

[AnyFucker]

It's a (very fucking) long story, lorelai

[LyndaNotLinda]

Oh god I remember her. And the other poster who was stuck out there and miserable but couldn't come back. Actually, there's been a few of those :(

[Bogeyface]

Oh, garage woman. I remember that one too. I remember that there were several of us saying that we would have broken the door down, but she was too browbeaten to demand access. It was heartbreaking really.

Both of those threads were perfect examples of what emotional abuse can do previously strong women :(

Lynda was that... Tigger? Tiger someone? I remember her too. Because of the Aus laws about children, if she had brought them home she would have been charged with abduction and subject the whole Hague convention thing, so had no choice but to stay. I think about her sometimes too.

[Glastokitty]

A disclaimer before I post. I emigrated to Oz three years ago with my family. I'd previously had little interest in emigrating, but had changed my mind when the Irish economy tanked. Anyway, I bloody love the place and wish I'd moved years ago, I knew within the first week I was home, and wild horses and a million pounds wouldn't drag me back.

But I don't think you should go. Emigration is unbelievably stressful, even if you are both on the same page and your relationship is solid. You would be horrified and amazed at the ex pat divorce rates. And if you have marital problems it is incredibly difficult, and will probably break you. A friend of mine came out here with her husband on a skilled visa (which only lasts 4 years). They fell in love with the place and decided to get permanent visas, then she caught him out going to prostitutes! She can't leave him because he's the one with the visa, so if she left him, she would have to go back to the UK without her kids. She is scared to go to the doc to get anti-depressants in case it affects their permanent visa application. And this has been going on for over a year. At least her husband isn't beating the shit out of her I guess, but what a way to live! And she thought they were very happily married!

Anyway, please don't bet on your husband only staying two years, many people come here on short term contracts and decide to stay (and often have to spend huge sums trying to get permanent residency). And you would be mad to give up your career, especially in the light of your rocky marriage, if you do come over, why can't you work here?)

Anyway, good luck with your decision.

[AcrossthePond55]

Legal advice absolutely. I've heard that Oz has very lax rules about when Oz becomes a child's 'usual abode' and very strict rules about removing a child once it is. You need to know if 6 months, 9 months, 15 months on things become intolerable, will you be able to take your children home.

I'd also second advice to see about marriage counseling right now to iron out all these bumps in your relationship. It's going to be really hard to do it in Oz. It sounds like habits have been formed based on each of you having 'breathing space' when DH is away for work. It's much easier to put up with someone when you know they're going to be gone in a month, iyswim. My DH worked away from home 4 days a week for about 3 years. I was used to doing things 'my way' and he was used to coming and going as he pleased when he was away. We didn't have a problem because if we got on each other's nerves at the weekend each of us felt (privately) it wasn't a problem because we'd each be 'on our own' when the weekend was over. It was quite an adjustment when he stopped working away!

As far as your career and being financially dependent on him, well, I wouldn't put myself in the position of being dependent on a partner in a rocky marriage. Just because you agreed to go does not mean that you cannot change your mind if you feel it's in your best interests.

Is there a possibility that some type of continuing education in Oz might make your career more viable when you return to the UK?

[NanaNina]

I don't understand why your career will be over if you make this move. Surely you could pick it up again when you return?

[KimmySchmidtsSmile]

OP
Why will marriage be over if you stay in UK?
You are already primary carer, lone parenting for two years in UK easier than Oz unless you have no support in UK either.
Have you already resigned, sold up or found tenants?
If not:
*Stay put and live in your house/keep your job
*Go to Australia for holidays at Xmas/Easter
It is not ideal but it is doable and preferable in the circumstances. The only problem you might have is shared finances as he presumably will be not ordinarily resident in the UK but you will not be entitled to as much help if together, although running two homes/council tax rebate etc should apply. Taxation depends on if UK company paying sterling or local contract paying dollars. Either way I would not go and would sort out the obstacles as I came across them. Your kids are young enough to cope, mine at that age would have been fine with Skype and extended breaks/support from grandparents.
Everything you have said is an alarm bell: as a "trailing spouse" of nearly a decade, nothing prepares you for the homesickness and culture shock and the resentment can and does quickly build up....

[WhoaCadburys]

Good luck OP, it sounds crap.

'I'm self-centred and I just don't like it as none of this decision is based around me' - that's not self centred.

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

Honestly? From everything you've just said, don't do it. Don't come.
It's hard enough moving 10,500 miles away when you really want to and it's a permanent move, and you have a loving supporting husband.
If your marriage is already rocky, and he's already ignoring your concerns, that isn't going to improve over here - and you will also have lost your support network, your friends, your colleagues, your family.

I sound like a doom monger but I've seen threads on here from other people who have come over and it's been really isolating for them, especially when their H hasn't been supportive, and has spent all his free time out socialising with colleagues etc.
Having said that, I've also met a couple of people who were only over here for 2 years, and they had a lovely time (but also had a good marriage and a supportive husband, which I think is key).

If it doesn't get any better and your marriage falls apart over here, you'll be in much worse state than if you were in the UK. And once the children have been here for a while, it becomes their place of habitual residence. HOWEVER I don't know how much the Hague convention applies to you because you'll only be here on a temporary visa, as appendages to your DH's working visa. You won't be a permanent resident and you'll be expected to leave again at the end of 2 years, so you need to look into that if you do still consider going.

I've been here for 6 1/2 years now, DH is Aussie, we're permanently here and I still sometimes get down about it. I still miss the UK. But we're not going back, so I just have to get on with it and get over it. I do have friends here now but it's taken a while.

Coming over here with your DH, resenting it, won't improve your marriage. So if you can manage to get some counselling in very quickly, before you have to decide whether or not to go, do that - but in all seriousness I'd be
looking at staying in the UK, and your DH going by himself, if he doesn't consider doing the counselling and being more supportive.

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

AND - whether or not your marriage survives a 2 year separation is really up to the both of you. Before DH and I were married, he was back in Australia for 3 years, and only came over to the UK twice a year for 3 weeks at a time. We still managed to keep our relationship together, and ended up married with 2 DC etc. so long distance IS doable, if you're both prepared to do it.

[Want2bSupermum]

I moved with work to the US and met my DH here. We have not moved out of the US because they won't give us a package equal to the one he is on now. I am happy with that. I have a career, our 3rd DC is on the way and we have financial stability in that we will have lived here long enough to qualify for pensions etc.

Listen to your gut and do not leave the UK. He can go ahead of you and set everything up. If he can speak to you with respect you think about joining him but if he is going to continue to not listen to you then do not put yourself or your DC in that position.

I would also strongly consider boarding school for your DC if they are over the age of 11. That way they are in the UK for the majority of their time and it hard to prove residency in Australia.