Everyone says 'how lucky, what an opportunity' but....

[Mothpop]

I may get shot down for how ungrateful I appear...

DH's job is moving to Australia for 2 years in a few months time and we (myself and 2 DDs) are all moving. DH works away during the week and so this will be the first time I have lived full time with DH for 14 years.

We have to pack up our newly renovated home that I love and take some stuff with us whilst leaving the rest in storage. Our lovely cats and chickens will be heading elsewhere. I have always worked full time as a quite well paid, professional and I have had to give up my job. I am giving up everything - my home, my career, my few very important friends. I really feel very down about this.... but in truth I have felt down for much longer.

At the moment all DH and I seem to do is row about the move. He is tired of my misgivings and has basically given up listening to me. He's home for the week ATM but I have barely seem him as I am continuing to look after our DDs whilst he busies himself doing tasks he likes outside. At the same time he constantly goes on about the jobs that I have to do - but clearly can't as I am the childcare. Tonight we're not talking.

I can't help but think this move will be quite literally be make or break for our relationship .... what happens if it's break and I'm stuck on the other side of the world with DDs and have no support network.... ?

AIBU? Am I just a very ungrateful person?

[oldlaundbooth]

Have you made a decision, OP?

If I were you I'd be letting him go to Australia, you stay put in your house with the chickens and your career.

I lived in Australia for a year and everyone I knew ended up with permanent residency, it's really not difficult, even if they were on a strict two year working holiday visa picking strawberries!

You DH may be more manipulative than you think, you know. Get to Australia, you're dependent on him, kids are resident, can't leave, etcetera.

I'd be staying at home, DH can visit.

[oldlaundbooth]

Also, if your DH has such a great job then can you afford a cleaner? Lighten the load for you a bit at home?

[ToastedOrFresh]

He is tired of my misgivings and has basically given up listening to me.

This wont get any better thousands of miles away. Feel for you.

This^ Exactly this.

It sounds like he is TELLING you what to do. Not a good sign. He's not your manager.

I've been in a similar situation. To cut a long story short I married an New Zealander in Britain in 1992. I told him upfront that I did not want to move to NZ. Ever.

So, in 2011 we arrived in NZ to live and work after selling the house and bringing all our furniture. (I said it was a long story cut short.) I was humouring him, to basically save our marriage. I didn't want to be the bad guy for saying no (even though I'd already said it. It was not discussed with love. More an off the cuff remark that, through circumstances, I didn't have the energy to rebuff). I didn't want to end up being not much more than his, 'jailer'. With him sulking for a couple of years until I just said, 'go wherever you like, just go and get away from me.'

Fast forward to the present day. I spend all day at a loose end not knowing what to do with myself. Sure, I'm able to work and I have done, but unfortunately jobs have been temporary and few and far between. We live in a small town with higher than average unemployment.

We've ended up living on my husband's salary (a job he found a few months after we arrived in New Zealand which isn't as easy as it sounds) as I haven't had any paid employment since last May. Unfortunately it's not unusual for me to be unemployed for up to a year at a time. I'm not allowed to claim any unemployment benefit because my husband earns more than the minimum wage. (I didn't come here to live off government hand outs.) I'm taxed as an individual when working but when it comes to claim I'm treated as part of a couple. Those are the rules.

It's because of my frustration of not being able to get into paid employment that New Zealand is the only place I've been prescribed anti-depressants in my whole life. (I chose to come off them after a few months, my doctor supported me.)

I mean, we get by ok, but it's not the dual income we had in Britain. My husband has remarked that we can't afford to replace the car. He's right. He also got in a real panic when he dropped his glasses as we can't afford to replace those, either. (He needs a strong prescription which makes glasses very expensive.) His glasses were undamaged but it was telling how upset he got.

I realise the answer is move to a larger town, but it's just to hard to go through all that upheaval just to stay here.

So, we are planning to return to the UK this year. Yay ! He's accepted that we can't go on like this. Not with me only being able to get work so sporadically. We're five years behind on our pension as of course we've paid no National Insurance contributions. We could pay it from overseas but on one income it's an expense we can't afford. We're also going to end up using some of the equity from our house to fund the move which will undermine our deposit which we will use to buy a house in Britain.

I wonder how much our old house in Surrey is worth now ? Oh well.

Sorry OP. You've got some hard, possibly shitty choices to make this year.

[ToastedOrFresh]

I do voluntary work to cover up the gaps in my cv. I do voluntary work presently to give me something to do and it puts a credible reference on my cv.

I go to the gym then have the rest of the day to myself.

Anyone looking on must think I'm living the life of riley.

[ExtraHotLatteToGo]

want2be they're 8 months & 3 years. I expect the govt would like them to take boarders that young, but the schools haven't capitulated just yet. But the OP could board them with me :)

[Sadmother]

It doesn't sound like a good opportunity to me, not compared to what you have here. You are not ungrateful. It sounds like it would be awful.

[Moopsboopsmum]

Another trailing spouse here. I gave up a newly renovated (massive) home and my career to follow DH. I can work here but can't find a job as I don't speak the language. I also have small kids. Our marriage was strong when when we made the decision to move but it was so tough that we have nearly split up at points. I won't say don't go but I would say that it won't be easy. We were promised the world by my DH's employer and unfortunately we are a lot worse off financially than we were in the UK. It does sound like you are stressed with work and looking after little kids. I do think that being a SAHM is so much less stressful and not worrying about getting up in the night etc makes things easier. Do you have a nanny now? Will there be enough money in Aus for you to have FT childcare even if you don't work? It could work out really well for you to have a break, spend time with the kids, on yourself and with your DH. I would agree with not burning your bridges back home. Some workplaces will offer a sabbatical to follow a spouse. A friend of mine has done this. Good luck OP. Sometimes moving out of the comfort zone can be the making of a person. I have struggled so much with this move but it has made me a stronger and better person/mother!

[Millionsmom]

In an expat wife too. My advice, don't do it.

My marriage was really strong before we left the UK, I was really excited about the move BUT we've almost broke up at least 3 times since we left and they are all down to my DH. He spends so much time with other men who are basically stuck in a warped sense of reality where women - wives/lady friends - just suck money out of them and they - the men - can do no wrong. Ever.
Just the other day I asked him if the company had found a new guy to work with him.
Me: so, where's he from?
DH: Yorkshire, but lives in Manila.
Me: is he married?
DH: yeah
Me: Oh nice! Where is she from?
DH: (sarky look on face) Manila obviously.
Me: Don't talk to me with that tone. I'm your wife, as we live in the Middle East I'm an Arab, obvs. Just because you've been 'bantering with the boys' don't come here and start it with me. You reckon you've had a hard day? So what, you've no excuse to come back and talk to me like that. (Before Mumsnet I wouldn't have said that I'd just have shut up, go Mumsnet!)

The point I'm trying to make is, his attitude won't improve once you are there. Any problems you are having now will just fester, but as its OZ, you won't be able to pack it all up and bring your DDs home for a breather without him.

[ToastedOrFresh]

My husband frankly sprang it on me that we could sell our house in Britain, buy a house in New Zealand. Both get jobs, live mortgage free and have more disposable income.

Sounds great, doesn't it ?

I was still grieving for my mum that had died a few months earlier. I was to weak to argue especially as I didn't understand why we were re-visiting the subject when I'd already told him no, several years prior and he accepted it. It wasn't even a proper discussion, it was more like an instruction. Almost like he was saying, 'you've had long enough to grieve, now chop chop we're talking about emigrating.'

Yes, I could have said no later on but my attitude was, 'you want it mate, you've got it. End of.'

It was quite telling that I didn't have the courage to say, 'can we just go for a couple of years to see how we go along rather than say that we're going forever at the beginning.'

At one stage he had a real, 'like you'd know' expression on his face when we 'discussed' going to NZ. Like I say, once the die was cast, the whole conversation was all about the logistics of going. Not once did he have any doubt. Scary.

Well, he did and I could see he was upset as there was a small scale natural disaster in the town we were heading for in New Zealand. That's when he had his moment of doubt. I thought, 'no way mate. You say when we go and you get to say that we don't go. No, not in my universe. We've agreed to go. We're going.'

It was also quite telling that I had to work up the nerve to twice ask him if he would claim his unemployment benefit referring to when he lived in NZ in previous years. He dodged the question on both occasions.

I also realised there were things that I needed to tell him that could wait until we got there as he would probably be more prepared to listen then.

Like I say, we're planning to go home this year. Who knew ?

I've made acquaintances but no friends in this town. No loss.

[TheMaddHugger]

If this was reversed and You had the job overseas ... Would he follow you with everything and the Children ?

NO

And he also needs to know that You are NOT his employee. He is NOT the Boss of you.

((((((((((Hugs))))))))))) stay home, dont go.

[crabb]

I read on your other thread that your husband's job is in Canberra, Moth. I live near Canberra - if you do end up coming, I could put you in contact with other UK mums, if that would help. I'm grandmother age but my daughter has small children, and was only just today mentioning that she has 3 or 4 young English mothers in her friendship group. That said, I really hope you get to talk properly to your husband about this soon. to you, this must be scary for you.

[BobbiPins]

OP, I am speaking from experience: a move overseas for your DH's career puts you in a very vulnerable position, both emotionally and financially - and in some cases legally (other posters have pointed out you may not be able to move back with your kids).

If you google "trailing spouse" the suggestions that come up are "trailing spouse depression" and "trailing spouse divorce". A move abroad is a very serious challenge EVEN if you are 1) In a great relationship 2) Are already a SAHM (no shock of a loss of a independence and lifestyle change) 3) Don't own a home you are attached to so not much to loose 4) The move will make you much better off as a couple. Even with all those factors you will most likely develop a depression and be very unhappy for a long time, until you settle and integrate.

In your case I don't see any factors that make moving worthwhile. You will be in limbo for two years. When you go back (if you go back) you will have no job (and no house?) and God knows how long it will take you to find a new one. You will not be able to properly settle in Australia because the moment you unpack you bags and catch your breath you will have to start planning your move home.

Your relationship with your husband doesn't sound great. You will have a chance to live together full time but you may discover that you don't coexist very well. Whilst you are being in a very dependent position.

I don't see a single thing you should to be grateful about in this situation, it actually sounds horrible. I would not move if the situation were as you describe.

Hope you are OK

[echt]

I came to Australia because of DH's work and gave up a well-paid, though slightly shitty job to do so. I started in the same line again, at the bottom, within four months and have done reasonably well. We were both on the same page about the move, get on well together, but it was still hard at first, and ten years later I still don't have what I would call friends as I had in the UK.

In your situation, I would not come here. You have so much to lose and are making yourself vulnerable in terms of money and your children.

Quite apart from the way your husband is treating all this, you've been on your own for most of your marriage; he might turn out to be a right PITA full-time.

[MattDillonsPants]

OP I also came willingly to Oz...we were struggling financially in the UK to a terrible degree and when DH had a job offer here, we would have been mad to refuse it.

I've actually got a much better career here in Oz than I could have dreamed of in the UK and the children are at a much better school than they'd have had in our old village...BUT....even though I wanted to come, even though my career is better...even though we actually have family and friends out here already....even with ALL those things it is HARD.

I miss my other family and friends a lot. I miss my country. But this is better for us and so I can cope...I have a network of mates here to rely on who were already here....without my job, my friends and the excellent house and school, I wouldn't stay.

In your shoes...I wouldn't come.

[notonyurjellybellynelly]

I'm your wife, as we live in the Middle East I'm an Arab, obvs

Lovely.

I think you'll find your husband is an arse. One that's used to speaking to people like shit because the people around him at work are too polite to tell him he's an arse or pull him up on it.

And to be honest there probably wasn't going to be any other answer to the question than the one you got. Most people would have been surprised you had to ask but they'd have managed an decent reply and perhaps expanded on the conversation.

There's just something about your username thats making me think we know each other if your username is part of a boys name.

[Want2bSupermum]

extrahotlatte thanks for the ages of the DC. I had read through but couldn't see reference to them. Obv too young for boarding.

OP. - if I were in your shoes there is absolutely no way that I would leave the UK. Not with DC those ages.

As for men being 'arses'. About 7-10 times a year DH comes home all 'man of the house' and I'm his supposed little woman. I tell him that I don't like his welcome so he needs to redo it. He is in a senior role and has an assistant at work (who is over 70).

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

Ah yes; DH reverts to caveman "I am the Man of the house" style after he's been away on conference with work, especially if it's been one where mingling with miners occurs (seems to bring out the Man thing more). Takes a couple of days to revert to equality again - but for those days he's all "I don't see why I have to do anything in the home, other men don't have to cook/clean/look after their children, that's what the wives are for" etc.

Really gets on my tits!

[curren]

Tbh op if you told me you were doing this in RL my response would be similar to 'wow what a great opportunity' but in my head I would saying 'Jesus I wouldn't want to do that'. But unless I knew you were not happy I wouldn't voice that.

I was in a similar situation, without the move. Dh bought a restaurant. After about a year it became apparent that he couldn't do it alone so I took the plunge left my job and ran it.

He was the chef, I ran the front. I did all the ordering, Rotas, accounts, staff issues, worked 6 nights a week. If it wasn't cooking...I did it.

Every night I just have had at least four people telling me how lucky I was that dh was such a great chef. No one ever said...wow he is lucky that you do it all, or you gave your career up to help him.

In fact many people said how lucky I was that dh had given me the opportunity to leave work and work just a few hours at night. I put about 70 hours a week in. Far more than when I had my job.

It caused massive resentment because he started believing it too. It was quickly forgotten, what I had given up. What I had put into the business. In the end I left. I opened my own business, which I now run with dh as he sold the restaurant.

Now it's different as we run the business as a team. He knows he was a prick and has worked hard to undo the shit that went on. He is horrified at the stuff that happened.

It nearly broke us. I gave up a lot to support him and worked myself into the ground while he was praised and deemed some sort of culinary Genius worthy of praise that I should be grateful married me. While I dealt with all the shit.

What I am saying is that when life revolves around just one of you. It gets very very difficult.

[JessieMcJessie]

Why would 2 years off, particularly when your DC are so young, ruin your career forever?

[tanukiton]

Umm I live and am settled overseas my choice. I think 2 years isn t long enough for the whole packing up the kids house etc and then going out if your heart isnt really into it.
i would let him go and then do long holidays (sod the school pay the fine)
Say he goes out first for 3 months then you come over for a month with the kids and check it out see if it is what you want 4 months gone. He comes back 2/3 weeks Christmas. then you guys go back out for spring break... you could easily get by for a year. Then home stretch for the last bit. If it was 4 years or over then well needs must but 2 months passes easily and you can always meet up in hong kong or singapore for holidays too...
If work is willing to give you unpaid leave then go for extended holidays. He isnt going to be on hand during the week so it is only weekends he will miss you and now that there is sky and fb meh. I usually come back to the uk for up to 2 months without my husband. He misses us a bit but really when they were little he enjoyed 2 months of sleeping well. And it was only really the weekends and holidays that he noticed the quiet.

[tanukiton]

sorry 2 years passes really quick

[timelytess]

Its two years. Use the time away to explore/work on your relationship - get counselling, find out what you really want for yourself. If it doesn't work out (I nearly wrote 'when'), you can split up when you come back and you and the dds will have had two years in Australia as an extra life experience. If you stay together, fine. Both ways win.

[mathanxiety]

Don't go.

You can't talk to each other now. He treats you as an employee. It will not be different in Australia and there will be just the two of you, no friends, lots of stress as you navigate the new territory.

He will have colleagues and you will be left high and dry trying to break into well established social circles or chatting with work colleague wives at the odd social.

Worst case scenario: he will get residency and you will be stuck until your children turn 18. You will have to start again in a career, more likely a job, that works around childcare (good luck with the Holy Grail there).

But even the second worst case scenarios are not great. No matter what, he holds all the cards when you go to Australia, and you are making yourself and your children very vulnerable.

Grasp the nettle, make whatever decision your gut is telling you to now. (I strongly advise you not to scupper your own life).

[0verNow]

My career would be over if I left it for 2 years, even on sabbatical. My knowledge would be out of date (very hard to maintain when not working, no matter how hard you try), my precise (and highly desirable) role would have been filled by someone else, and my valuable contacts would have moved on. I'm sure I could get some form of employment again, but not in the role I carved out for myself on an equivalent salary.