To not understand how people can justify it

[ijustdontunderstand]

Okay, not a bun fight I just want to understand how those who vote Tory can think the cuts to disability benefits are OK.

This is NOT saying if you vote Tory you're a bad person, at all, I just want to understand. Will you vote them in again knowing?

What do you mean by "hurt", DinosaursRoar?

Do you mean, make unable to afford a second foreign holiday this year?

Or do you mean, leave lying in faeces for 12 hours a day?

Your attempt to make all issues equivalent is interesting, but not actually valid.

I'm starting to understand politics a lot more than I did (thank you History degree); I think it's the fact we've been a conservative country since the early 20th century (with Labour having little bits of control) so it may be the case of people sticking to what they know... Also conservatism is about traditional values so perhaps that's what people are wanting.

I mean let's not forget it's Labour who caused the financial mess in the first place, so I guess somebody needs to fix it. Politics is definitely the lesser of two evils, so people tend to vote for the party they feel will help the country.

That being said, I don't agree these cuts on disability benefits, the NHS, education etc. It's not fair on us, why should we (the general public) have to suffer because of these debts need to be paid).

I mean perhaps withdrawing from the EU will be a good thing in hindsight!

No I try and prioritise what is best for vulnerable people. I used to earn much more and be well, I voted against my own self interests.

I mean let's not forget it's Labour who caused the financial mess in the first place

How exactly?????

See, people keep blaming Labour for the global financial crash, it's really strange!

Snap, cleaty.

Except I never really considered it against my self-interests long term to live in a country that looked after its citizens. I never expected to become disabled (which of us does?), but I reckoned it was swings and roundabouts.

stinkysnowbear if you become severely disabled and don't get any help that day may come sooner than you think.

scarriff to answer your questions. Ironically, if the motorbike isn't a racing bike, I'm better off on one as it puts me in a more upright position with my legs straighter down from the top, bent at the knee and therefore in less pain. Daft but sitting in a car for 2 hours often means I need to be sort of tipped out at the other end. Not attractive but amusing at times for my children and partner. If I didn't laugh I'd shoot myself. And painting. Well I can manage about 30 minutes at a time as long as I don't need to actually lug pots of paint about.

So yes, effectively I can ride a motorbike (and did until my partner got driven into on ours by a car writing it off) but won't be for at least a year after my surgery due to the very strict rules on healing which pretty much rules out anything except bloody breathing. And I could paint a room but it would take me a bloody long time.

I have bad days and not so bad days. The not so bad days are when the pain is bearable enough to actually walk about without crying and hanging off furniture. The bad days I'm stuck in bed.

Incidentally I read that house and car insurance are going to be hit with an increase in tax at the budget so it will affect everyone. For those well off it's fine. For those who struggle on their current wage it's going to be hard. For those who've just had a reduction of £30 a week it could mean the end of insuring their car and a loss of freedom.

I voted Tory and will continue to do so. I believe that we as a country should cut our cloth according to our means. The present level of spending on the welfare state (however well-meaning) is unsustainable. That isn't the fault of the bastard Tories - it's simple demographics. I believe in a small state and low tax economy.

FWIW I worked FT all through cancer treatment because I was bloody determined not to let the bastard disease cripple my career on top of everything else. I am probably an extreme example, but I strongly believe that anyone who is able to work should do so. My workshy DSis calls me a Calvinist, but I am also mortgage free and still under 40.

Coffee - I accept that, but I also have studied and worked to the extent that I have bought a couple of BtLets and very good private health insurance.

For me, the Conservatives are the only party that can be trusted with the economy. My father is from a very deprived council estate but worked very hard and through his grammar school education was able to provide me a fairly privileged upbringing. I will do the same with my DCs.

That does not mean I don't care about people with disabilities - I volunteer hours every week and give a substantial amount to charities. I just do not believe that Labour are ever good for the country. In many ways they wrecked it last time; I will never vote for Corbyn and his bunch of loony Commie comrades or SadDick Khan in London to have another shot.

If you know anything about cancer treatment, you will know that chemotherapy actually covers a wide range of drugs. I know people who have worked when they are getting chemotherapy. I know others who are throwing up frequently or have had to be admitted to hospital because of severe side effects.

To the people who say their voting is because the system is SO abused: how do they know? Where does this knowledge come from and what are the statistics please (and where do they come from?).

I also have a relative who is terminally ill with cancer and works. He actually does not have a choice as he is not entitled to anything. But you are not special if you have cancer treatment and work. Many people do. But for some they are so ill it would be unthinkable.

YoungGirlGrowingOld - what is the current level of welfare spending? What is the current breakdown (jsa, housing benefit, pension etc.) and what proportion of our current spending does that amount to? What else are we spending money on and what do you think we should be spending money on?

Isn't it strange though, that many people think the country has no money? The UK is still apparently round about the 6th richest country in the world!

Permanantly exhausted. I said I would leave my handbag with any of them. The point I was trying to make is that none of us believe in the bad back but won't shop them Wrong? I wouldnt take a job deciding on the relative merits of disabled people either.

Two of the other disabled people people in this small area also keep their benefits and a bit more. The lady with the fused vertebrae has acquired a mobility scooter and the autistic young man has an independent living apartment and a mentor. Not too shabby.

Isn't it strange though, that many people think the country has no money? The UK is still apparently round about the 6th richest country in the world!

Yes, suckered into the austerity myth which is just used to justify punishment and cuts.

I agree damibasiamille. Strange that a country with no money thinks it is ok to spend upwards of £70bn of taxpayers' money on a railway line simply to shave a few minutes off journey times.

cleaty I know plenty about cancer treatment, thank you. I have had over a year of it and DH is an oncologist.

My own doctor offered to sign me off for the duration before I had even had my first chemo, but I refused. Admittedly, I had to take time off when I got sepsis and I worked shorter hours towards the end when I was knackered, but it gave me something else to think about and I believe it was key to my recovery. I did not claim any benefits.

DH on the other hand has long-discharged patients asking to be signed off as unfit to work even 5 years after treatment. He feels they are swinging the lead but he gets viciously abused when he tells them so.

It's not inherently evil to think that welfare and benefits need reform. I am not in a position to comment on whether the present assessment system is good or bad, but it's absolutely right that those who can work do so and that those who are cheating the system are winnowed out.

Scarriff, that's the first time I've heard the phrase 'not too shabby' to describe something as life-enhancing as needing to use a mobility scooter. Lucky lady indeed.

YoungGirl - Well oncologists here refuse to sign people off as ill after some months of treatment. Some people will always take advantage.

Most people I know get very little sick pay, so they do work unless they really really can't.

I am probably an extreme example, but I strongly believe that anyone who is able to work should do so.

To re-ask a question that I asked upthread of someone else and which has so far gone unanswered: please tell me where all these flexible, understanding employers are - the ones prepared to pay for reasonable adjustments, whose business is suitable for people with variable disabilities so able to support an employee who might be able to work this week but not next, or today but not tomorrow?

it's absolutely right that those who can work do so and that those who are cheating the system are winnowed out.

But's that NOT what these cuts, and ergo the Tory's policies on welfare "reform" are doing. They're affecting everyone who falls into X category - WRAG ESA, PIP recipients using care or mobility aids - regardless of the fact the government itself does not consider them to be "cheating the system" or disputes that they have a disability.

Seriously, ANYONE who thinks these recent cuts are about "winnowing out the cheats" is either wilfully self-deluded or downright stupid, since all the evidence including the DWP's own statisics makes it clear this is not the case.

I work part time for a very flexible employer. I am lucky, I can't imagine being able to work anywhere else. My DP has a genetic illness and is self employed, because it is the only way DP can work.

I mean let's not forget it's Labour who caused the financial mess in the first place, so I guess somebody needs to fix it.

Labour didn't exactly help on the road to recovery, but they didn't cause the global recession!

Really Breconbebuggered?I wouldn't describe her as lucky. But it is the case that in the middle of all this fanfare about cuts, she has been given a scooter as well as her other benefits. She can shop, go to the pub and have more fun. The autistic young man has got away from his parents and may even get a job one day. Its not all bad news.

For me, the Conservatives are the only party that can be trusted with the economy.

which part? The housing market, where help to buy has inflated it even more? Or RTB, which is giving away a billions of dollars of state assets to people?