to be really pissed at BFF's DH

[ivebeengrassed]

I've NC for this so I don't out myself. Also my first AIBU!

Background: My BFF 'Mary' is married to my DH's BFF 'Bob'.

I just found out that 'Bob' has been reading 'Mary's' email. How you ask? He called my DH and told him some of the things I've said about him when Mary & I have emailed each other and done the usual venting with each other (as friends do) when we're angry at our spouses. Mary and I can really make 'digs' at our DHs and be extremely sarcastic but we know that we don't mean them, iyswim. Nothing vile or cruel. Just the usual 'can you believe what an idiot…' kind of thing. Apparently he was angry at her for something and rather than talk to her, he decided to print some of her 'venting' emails and pin them to their bedroom door. Then he decided that my DH 'needed to know' what I've said and called him. AND he's told DH he's going to forward my emails so he can read them for himself. He apparently wasn't home when he called DH and Mary has told me she's deleted them all. Hopefully before he's had a chance to forward them to his own email account! I'll also add that Bob until recently had a huge alcohol problem and was violent to her and some of the emails he saw were probably ones in which I told Mary to LTB and what I thought of his drinking. He's no longer drinking, and I was happy for her and thought things had been much better. Now, I'm not so sure!

Anyway, DH is upset that I criticized him to Mary, saying he wouldn't do that to me. Bob has put his own 'interpretation' on my words to DH. Needless to say this has caused some 'words' between DH and I, but I expect we'll get over it.

I'm really furious at Bob, not so much at Mary. I had no idea he had her email password and she had no idea he'd been reading her emails, as far back as two years, as she never reads his. DH says I should be angry at HER because she never told me her email wasn't private and that I should realize that Bob was only being 'a good friend'. My opinion is he did it as revenge for my telling Mary to leave him and to try to 'break up' Mary's and my friendship as I made it very clear that she shouldn't put up with his drunken abuse. The thing is I know quite a few of the really mean things he's said about her/her family because he's vented to my DH, both drunk and sober. I've kept quiet about them as DH relayed them to me under 'marital confidence'.

I told DH that I feel like telling Mary every mean thing Bob has said about her when he's been 'venting'. DH says it's different because I 'put it in writing' and if I told Mary I'd just be repeating Bob's 'verbal remarks'. I said the only difference is that Bob would have plausible deniability where as the emails are 'proof'. I've kept quiet about them as DH relayed them to me under 'marital confidence'.

I guess here are my AIBU;

AIBU at being mad at him, not her?

AIBU to want to tell her all the things he's said about her and her family when he's been drunk and/or 'venting' to DH? (Perfectly willing to be told AIBU on this point as DH told me in confidence)

Pseudo if you had bad experiences of this type when younger then it makes sense that you'd be sensitive to it now. I think I'm lucky that I never even imagined anyone would talk about me at all - although they probably did, I was a right weirdo at school plus having a teacher as a parent - and so I take the view that I won't worry about things I can't see, if that makes sense.

People have different concepts of loyalty I think. For me it's in your actions, not words.

Hasn't slagging our menfolk off (and vice versa) been a time-honoured bonding tradition since time began?

I've found you can get sucked into complaining about spouse to fit in - I'm really not sure it's a good thing. Yes sometimes it helps to vent but do think that should be rare - so would question the dynamic between you and Mary TBH.

Plus you really don't know who has access to e-mail once they are written - so it really doesn't make good sense to write stuff you have a problem with others seeing. DH used to be system manager in one of his jobs meant he had access to everyone e-mail not that he abused it but he could have with no one being any wiser.

So you really haven't behaved well here - and can understand your DH being upset and I do think perhaps you should be focusing on that and how you can make it right and less on the other couple.

Having said that Bob is massively in the wrong - first reading someone e-mails, then shit stirring in someone else marriage.

Is Mary completely oblivious to him having access to her e-mails ?- if she is can't see how you can blame her.

If she was aware it was a possibility then why hasn't she mentioned it to you ? Does she want your marriage to have problems as well so she feels less bad about hers?

I would point out to your DH that his mate Bob hasn't behaved well and has form for saying nasty things about people though he's had the sense not to write it down but apologise for your behaviour towards your DH at same time.

Thanks for your opinions.

I accept that I was foolish to put things in writing, but not that I shouldn't ever criticize DH to Mary. I'm not complaining about his character or virtues, I'm complaining that he said I spent too much on something (or I think that he did), he didn't take wet clothes out of the washer, or that he didn't take the bin bags out so I 'had to do it'. Things that in the course of life don't mean much, but at the time were irritating. And she's not some random stranger, she's someone who knows us both and has supported us both through good and bad. TBH, so has Bob (up until now). As we have done for them. I'm just really upset that now I no longer have someone to blow off steam to on the spur of the moment (other than you vipers). Mary and I don't live within 'drop in' distance and most of our communications are by email.

No, I'm not going to tell Mary the things that Bob has said. But only because DH told most of them to me in confidence. But I have told DH that if I happen to over hear things (as I have in the past) that since Bob didn't respect my confidentiality with Mary, I no longer feel the need to respect his with my DH.

I doubt if DH will stop his friendship with Bob. They have a very strong bond and DH really doesn't think Bob did anything 'wrong'. But it's going to be, at the least, very awkward going forward as I really don't want anything to do with Bob from now on. We'll just have to see how it goes.

Looks like no emails have shown up yet, at least DH hasn't mentioned anything.

Mary's marriage sounds awful. You should point her towards Mumsnet so she can see that Bob's behaviour is controlling and unacceptable.

I doubt if DH will stop his friendship with Bob. They have a very strong bond and DH really doesn't think Bob did anything 'wrong'.

Your husband is happy to be friends with an abusive man?

Wow.

Ice trust me, this is something that's come up more than once between DH and I. But I have no more right to demand that he end a friendship than he has the right to demand that I do, even if Bob is an abusive twat. I can disapprove, I can voice my opinion, but I don't have the right to demand.

So, Bob sent one email that I sent Mary. Apparently it's the one he printed and put on their door. I have no idea if he has more. DH was very hurt and angry, guess it serves me right for putting it in writing. I knew better but never thought he'd look in Mary's private emails. More fool me. So things are very unpleasant. Bob has dripped poison in DH's ears to put the worst possible spin on my words and did a pretty good job of egging DH on to be angry by going on about my 'disloyalty'.

DH refuses to even consider that Bob did this to stir shit between he and I and to cause a fracture in my friendship with Mary. Bob was 'right' to sent the email because 'he thought DH deserved to know'. Oh yes, Bob's motives were purely altruistic. And now DH is off talking to Bob who I am sure is continuing in the same vein, so I'm sure when he gets home there will be more.

Although I'm sure I won't, I did tell DH that I had a mind to tell Mary all the things Bob has said about her and especially her family. DH said that he's probably not said anything to DH that he hasn't said to her himself. He's probably right, when he gets drunk he just vomits bile, iyswim.

It's all just so fucking high school, isn't it?

What a mess

You said he sent one email. What did you say in it. Because of it said something along the lines of 'dh didn't take the washing out' and your dh is very upset about that, then you have bigger problems.

Did Mary know he had access to her email?

I think both you and dh have caught up in their abusive marriage and somehow ended up on opposing sides.

What was in the email?

Prefer not to say, there are things referring to specific events that could out me. Suffice it to say it was worse than 'he didn't take the bins out' but not nearly as bad as 'he's a fucking cunt'. It didn't attack his character or love for his family.

I would tell both DHs to move in with each other, because quite frankly they both sound as bad as each other. Why didn't your DH give Bob a blocking for showing him that email?

Bollocking!!!!

Okay if you feel you can't tell him who he can be friends with then you need to tell him that ANY mention of this vile man will not be tolerated in your house
You do t want him in Your house either
If he wants to continue being his friend that's up to him but if he wants to continue being your husband then you need his support within the marriage
Isn't marriage supposed to be stronger than friendship.
Don't let him turn this all on you, take the high ground and just make that statement once. And not discuss it further
Let the vile man continue trying to poison him your dh will soon see.

Bob is awful and abusive. Printing out her private emails and pinning them to her door? Mary needs to get out. Hopefully you can make up with your DH soon.

What the hell can your husband not see how revolting and nasty Bobs actions were? !

landrover Ha. Bob wishes they could be 'roomies'! They share a hobby and he resents when DH puts our family first when he (Bob) wants to do the hobby.

mamas12 I don't think there's much worry about Bob being in our house, because Bob 'just doesn't see how he can look me in the face after what I did to DH'. Truth is he's too much a coward to face me. I've spoken my piece to DH and did tell him that I don't want to discuss this further that we'll just have to agree to disagree about Bob's motives. Hopefully, that'll be the end of it. But unfortunately I don't think that Bob will let this go. He knows my feelings about the way he treats Mary (since he read emails urging her to leave him because of his abuse) and I think he sees this as his way to get back at me.

theycall She knows she doesn't deserve the way he treats her. But just as with many who post here, she's not 'there' yet.

I think above all, I just have an overriding sadness. The four of us (plus kids) have had some lovely times together. I just don't know if that can happen anymore. I feel if I could tell Bob to FOTFFSOF etc etc, I could get over it put up with him. But to do so would only result in giving him ammo to twist my words to DH and would probably make more trouble for Mary.

pinky no he can't. I hope I don't out myself and I hope this isn't drip feeding but the two of them were in a dangerous situation a few years back and Bob literally saved my DH's life. I'm very grateful that he did, of course, but it's created some type of feeling of 'beholding' in DH where he just cannot accept that Bob would ever do anything to hurt DH or our marriage.

he just cannot accept that Bob would ever do anything to hurt DH or our marriage.

I think a better way to put it is that DH just cannot accept that Bob would ever do anything without DH's best interests at heart.

TBH if my wife moaned about me to her friends I wouldn't care as we all do it but this sounds more than moaning OP.

I think you do actually have a right to ask a partner to stop being friends with someone when they have crossed the line and been abusive to you. He's attempting to drive a wedge in to your marriage. I wouldn't be around him and would consider it ultimatum worthy. I feel quite bad for your friend as she is innocent in this but you might consider properly distancing yourself from them both for your relationship.

DH sounds very naive I'm afraid. Methinks you're probably going to have to let him get this out of your system and eat humble pie until this settles. I suspect criticising Bob will be seen as Arse covering on your part. Be patient and pick your battles.

I agree Jan, I think that the OP needs to take on all our ideas of revenge to Bob!!! (wicked glint in my eye!) Come on Mumsnet!

I can disapprove, I can voice my opinion, but I don't have the right to demand.

Why the hell should YOU have to demand it? I couldn't be in a relationship with someone who thought it was okay to abuse a partner, and clearly your husband does.

Janecc You've hit the nail on the head. I've eaten a large helping of humble pie. And you're right about arse-covering, Bob posted something 'vaguely' homophobic on his FB today and when I said 'that's not very nice' I was told I wasn't in any place to make comments about Bob. Normally, DH would have agreed with me. Bob sounds nicer and nicer, doesn't he? I guess I really haven't been slapped hard in the face with 'who he really is' until today.

Percy IMO it wasn't, it was more that it could be taken two ways, verbatim or sarcasm/irony. Bob made sure that DH took it as verbatim.

I can see everyone's point about DH not being friends with Bob anymore. But at this point I think it's going to have to fall into 'pick your battles'. Once things die down and DH isn't in the 'Bob has my back' mentality I plan to start working on that issue.

land You're so bad! Trust me, I do believe that revenge justice is a dish best served cold. My turn will come. And I hope it comes in the form of spiriting Mary away when he's not looking!!

Just want to thank everyone for their opinions.

The upshot of this is that Mary and I have spoken and are only going to vent by phone or in person from now on. I did tell her that Bob has been reading her emails for the past two years, but did not tell her the things Bob has said about her/her family in the past because most of them were told to me in confidence by DH. She has created a new email account to which he does NOT have a password for emailing her friends and her family and she will be deleting any emails in that account just in case as she no longer trusts Bob. It sounds to me as if she's starting to wake up to how abused she is now that she can no longer put it down to his drinking. I guess he didn't foresee that when he did what he did.

DH seems to have calmed down but still defends Bob so we have agreed to disagree. I have also told DH that if Bob doesn't want Mary to know what he says, then he (DH) is not to tell me. Because I feel now that Bob does not deserve confidentiality from DH and certainly not from me. And that if I overhear anything I will tell her. In a way this debacle has served one purpose as I'll no longer know things that I feel Mary should know, but cannot tell her. As far as DH's friendship with Bob, that I am tabling for another day.

I have told DH that I am not going to confront Bob as it would only cause problems for Mary and would serve no purpose. Nothing I say to him would make a difference anyway. But I've also told DH that if there is any repeat of this type of shit (Bob trying to interfere in our marriage) that I WILL go after him with both barrels. I don't foresee my 'having' to see Bob in the near future. I'll deal with that if/when it happens. It's all going to be based on what's better for Mary.

I'm now going to NC back to my usual nickname and disappear into the anonymity of MN!

I think your approach is a good one.

Whilst Bob has a hold over Mary (and your DH) there's not much you can do.

Hopefully they'll both see Bob for what he is soon.