AIBU to think that MN need to come up with a way to stop fake posters?

[bbcessex]

It really is getting boring. Dull, dull, dull.

I'm not clever enough to work out a formula myself, but would removing the name-change function stop trolls being able to hide so much ? I appreciate this may have a negative effective on those who wish to remain anonymous, but maybe the upside would be worth it?

Another option - would having a flag that said "first time poster" help on an OP? or the number of posts an OP has made?

Too many times recently I read an OP and watch many posters fall into the abyss of answering honestly to a thread that has all the marks of a hairy keyboard sad twat.

YANBU

I've been confused over a name changing troll over the past couple of days. I've never really understood why they're so damaging until now. Reported etc but still an unpleasant thing to experience.

The temptation to just out them is strong but of course we can't do that so I don't know what else can be done.

Surely if someone gets attacked and bitten by a badger, then wonders if badgers should be culled
that's legitimate.
If a troll pretends they were attacked and bitten by a badger and wants them culled
that's not legitimate.

Badger culling is an emotive subject. How on earth are MNHQ supposed to spot the difference

If the "joined XXXX" were put next to my name it would show I joined last August.

Yet my alter-ego Bucharest joined in 2004. She has just deregistered a lot over the years and joined up again.

The "joined in..." thing is wrong on 3 counts, the first ^ there, it's meaningless.

The second is that the very worst trolls that have passed into MN folklore were "long term (and often) well-respected MNers". There are several right now, here, as we speak, totally convincing, totally trolls.

The third is that that would give a nasty sense of hierarchy to the site, which frankly, is often pervading enough as it is. I can just imagine the sneering from the "hellairrrrrrr did you call" lot when someone with a "joined 2016" badge dares to encroach upon their territory.

All HQ can do, is ban ban and ban some more.

Namechanging could be banned. So, the troll would just sign up with another email account.

While we're at it though, there should be a ban for socking as well. Half the time the trolls are bumping their own threads and talking to themselves to ramp up the drama.

If I was queen of the world, I'd also suspend any thread (however gentle and nice) where people started talking about meeting people in the middle of the night, mercy dashes by MNers, handing over of food parcels. Let them do it in a PM, they know how it works. Trolls thrive on the fact that everyone is being drawn in to the drama as Batman and Robin leap into action. It'd soon die a death if it had to be done in private.

I think we should ban social media altogether & just get on with our real lives.

I agree about the socking then. Although at least in a lot of cases it's really obvious.

"While we're at it though, there should be a ban for socking as well. Half the time the trolls are bumping their own threads and talking to themselves to ramp up the drama. "

Yes to this! I think it is bannable but I'm not sure how easy it would be to pick up on. The 'socking' account could look fine from MNHQ's side - it's just the way it's being used that makes it look suspicious but it could just be someone who happens to agree with the troll. Tricky.

I think MNHQ can see sockies just fine.

Socks should be automatically highlighted in bright pink and a beep beep "incoming sock puppet" image pop up.

Could tech do that please?

Socks are generally very obvious. 300 posters all saying YABU then someone pops up and says "I totes agree hun, lay off with the pile-ins" then the OP says "thanks to Socky McSockpuppet, I knew I was right"

I think a lot of socks do a lot of "I've texted the OP and......" stuff as well.

I don't think we should be limiting what members can do such as namechanges, or labelling users overtly with post counts and date of joining. I find MN more egalitarian and friendly as it is.

I like to name change regularly to maintain privacy and don't want this facility to be stopped or limited.

I have little interest in how long someone's been on MN and think that an interesting post by someone who joined last week is just as valid as one by someone who's been here for years. It also reduces anonymity as everyone's joining date would appear in the discussion and it would be easier to link them up with a name change.

However I do think hiding/suspending a thread or user following a certain number of reports would be reasonable.

I suppose there doesn't seem to be anyway MNHQ can realistically stop trolls from posting at all - this is the internet after all. The only thing they can really control is their response to trolls and this thread seems to confirm the response at the moment isn't as quick/efficient as it could be, perhaps.

I've definitely seen some threads posted at a certain time of day/night when the OP knows there's only nightwatch so can be confident they won't be removed quickly. I'm pretty sure the timing is deliberate.

I am adding my support to the idea of threads being locked after a certain number of reports - as PP said, locking them and depriving the troll of oxygen is the only thing to do. The trouble is they would just probably start new threads under a re-reg.

Which brings us back to the point that trolls will always be about, the main responsibility to other users, lies with the other users themselves. I said earlier some behaviour displayed on here (mercy dashes at midnight, meeting posters in RL, etc etc) would make me if my DC did it. It will be interesting to see how my DCs' generation deal with trolling - I tend to think the onus will just be on people just to realise anyone could be a troll and protect themselves accordingly. I realise that sounds a br victim blamey though.

Yes, I think that's a bit strange too. Although perhaps they're quite often sock puppets for the troll with the sole purpose of 'reporting back' that the troll was a real person in need and therefore keeping the drama going?

some people do really have a lot of messed up stuff happen to them

Im not a gullible person but for me this is what it really comes down to, even stories that seem far fetched may be true. I know through my job for example of how badly people can treat each other and awful things do happen to people in life. I would hate to be suspicious of someone whos needing support and telling the truth, although I have no idea how to stop trolls trolling here.

I like the sockpuppet highlighting idea - that would solve lots I think.

I also think that mods need to respond faster, especially at night and that the rules around identifying rl people in posts should be tightened up to lessen the societal prejudice shown (disability, single parent bashing etc).

I value the ability to nc, it is what makes mn a safe place where I can post anon as do many others. The ability to post about personal facets of my life and remain anon is fairly unique and why I and a lot of mners come here.

One other troll-beating suggestion could follow the ignore them method. If we block a thread as well as report it then perhaps the thread could have a ticker saying how many have blocked it. This could be a safety warning whilst HQ decide if they will delete the thread. This would flag it to others as a possible troll and give the option of making an educated decision whilst also removing the troll food.

I think identity verification will not work but using the community to monitor the traffic in this way would. Sock highlighting and thread block tickers would allow the mn massive to act immediately instead of relying on the mods to step in.

I would rather threads are deleted than left frozen purely because some have been so incredibly offensive and upsetting.

The sock highlighting idea is fine if it's someone using their own account and just namechanging (which would be obvious to HQ anyway) - it's the ones using multiple accounts that are trickier and I suspect that more and more people are doing that.

I like the sockpuppet highlighting idea - that would solve lots I think.

It would also highlight accidental name change fails as well though, which could be a privacy concern?

I think the speed of response is often the issue. Once people have started reporting a thread I agree it should be locked until it can be investigated.

The blatant trolls are easier to deal with and normally will quickly be derailed or called out (I remember a very successful derail of a disabilist troll into a discussion about cake which provoked a furious reaction from the troll - it took the thread out of their control for the considerable time it took to get it deleted.)

The more subtle long standing trolls are more difficult to solve. I know one that got caught out due to a name change failure, it really surprised me as they had come across as pretty average. They were pretending to be a HCP when the weren't and offering advice on health matters. Potentially putting people at risk.

I don't want name-changing to stop- I'd have to leave, as I need anonymity because of my job. I've been here a v long time, and I think there's a lot more drama in troll threads than there used to be. In the past, MNers would spot trolls and make fun of them. Far more entertaining and infuriating for trolls! Some of the best threads were benign trolling (used to be called joke threads, as it was long term users having a laugh, no nastiness).
I agree with PP that said putting people's joining date is decisive. All posters should be treated well, regardless of how long they've been here.

*devisive

The only reason I use MM is because it allows name changes, doesn't have a thread count next to your name, doesn't give the year you joined, or if it's your first post.

You will then get a hierarchy of posters of you do te above. If MN change I wouldn't use it or get the help. A lot if things I post I would get accused of being a troll, but life is stranger than fiction and some people are unlucky enough to go through a lot of shit.

whatever forum you are on you will get trolling, MN do great. Nothing needs changing.

I think a lot of people are overestimating the tech available (or at least, cost effective to utilise) in this area.
Name changing is a red herring, thats trackable by MN anyway, it makes no difference at all. It's incredibly easy to have multiple emails, throwaway logins, dynamic IP addresses, proxies and VPN's....a banned poster can be back in 5 mins and nothing at all would flag up MN-side.

All that "joined in 20XX" is kinda meaningless as well, what about all the de-regs after hacker-gate, who came back afterwards? Returning flouncers, lost logins, new phone and couldn't remember passworders, etc etc? All it would create is a hierarchy of "look at my dates and take heed, I'm an oldie" nonsense, as would post counts/post starter counts (which don't take into account lurkers and lightweights anyway).

No, its the wrong way to look at it. If trolls are bothering you, protect yourself. Don't give up your soul to anonymous people online, don't tell them secrets if it would hurt you to tell them to people who are lying to you. Anyone might be lying, in any post at any time, you can't bank on honesty from a random internet forum user. If you suspect a troll, report the post, and move on.

I'm not sure I understand the issue with 'trolls' to be honest. I have had things go on in my life that would be deemed outrageously impossible and wouldn't even be seen on a soap opera! If I posted them here, people would call me a troll. So, I don't think they can easily be identified.

From reading the thread, there seems to be 2 issues - 1 people giving personal information about themselves to help the OP and then being upset if that's not real and 2 - people becoming very invested in helping OPs who turn out to be fake. But really if you think about it, is the responses that are the problem, not the OP. You are either willing to pass on your personal information over a very very very public site or you're not. Even if the poster you are responding to is fake, that information may help someone else who only ever reads and never posts. If you are becoming so invested in helping a total stranger on the internet, then that is a major problem and I think that person would need to at least stay off the site and possibly talk to a professional about that.

As another poster said, think of the ways we teach children to be safe on the internet - you don't make yourself vulnerable, remember that people on the other end may not be who/what they portray themselves to be, don't give information that would identify you and for the love of all that is holy, do not meet them. These sites are great, but they are not real life.

I know people are saying that trolling cannot be "diagnosed" (for want of a better word) simply if someone is posting about something that seems far-fetched. I agree with that, and think that sometimes it isn't the tale that gives them away, it's their way of telling the tale. Some of the trolls are almost...innocuous. There is a PBP that returns again and again and starts threads that aren't necessarily "dramatic" but their actual style of posting is what gives them away. They're trying to suck people in and cause disagreements.

As MN advise, all you can do is report and ignore but when the threads stand for hours while they're "looked into" by MNHQ, people get sucked in. A lot of "warning"'is done by PMs between posters these days I think, certainly more than it used to be.

I've been accused of trolling before. It was under a different screen name, had namechanged because I was identifiable through some of the details posted, and it was really quite an awful thing I was discussing. The accusations of trolling upset me almost as much as what I had posted about.

Some extreme and awful things happen to people. And there will always be some people who post complete bullshit. The mixture of those two is what you end up with when you put a large amount of people on the internet.

MNHQ might not respond as quickly as some of us would like at times, especially with particularly harmful threads, but they are just human beings I think.