To think you should be liable if your dog causes someone to have an accident?

[ylaipi]

My friend was out walking with her Weimaraner. Very friendly dog, doesn't approach people. However, he was off the lead and ran towards a woman on the footpath. Woman got scared and jumped aside, lost balance, fell and tore the ligaments in her ankle, needing surgery.

She is now suing my friend, who faces a hefty fine.

Now I'm scared of dogs and wish they would all be kept on leads everywhere but can see why friend is upset.

Who is being unreasonable here?

I'm in agreement with DunkenUnicorn here - it really does depend on a number of factors - was the dog in an area where they are allowed off lead, how far ahead was the dog, how was the dog behaving etc.

Dog owner (or rather the insurance) will still pay, but I can see why dog owner would be a bit miffed.

When I used to walk the Mutt and train foster dogs on the MOD land near my house (land that I had permission to use, but was out of bounds to the general public) I had a few altercations with non-dog people that were angry and scared that I had off lead dogs. Trying to reason with them was futile - they never wanted to listen. In the end I just had to grit my teeth and ignore them. I have no doubt if any of them had made a complaint then I would be liable - even though they were trespassing and shouldn't have been there in the first place.

It's one of those 'own a dog, suck it up' issues I'm afraid.

It will all hinge on whether your dog was deemed to be under your control. Was the dog running at the woman or merely towards her? I don't think the OP friend can be liable unless the dog was actually running to the woman as opposed to towards her.

My friend said her dog was running ahead on footpath (in sight) but she didn't call him back as he ignores people and would have trotted straight past the woman.

I see it from both sides but I would have jumped aside too as I'm scared of dogs. Although if I'd fallen I wouldn't have blamed the dog!

I do ask dog owners to move their dogs off the footpath if I have the buggy. I don't like to squeeze past a dog with the buggy in case it freaks out or jumps at DS! I once nearly fell into a lake when I passed a dog (on a lead) and dog lunged at me (it just wanted to sniff but it was a big dog and the path was narrow!)

Isn't a dog only under control if it is walking next to you?

The other woman wasn't to know that it would ignore her or that it has good recall!

I must admit OP, I could agree with you up until your most recent post. You are obviously not a fan of dogs and your reaction to them is OTT and you will make your child scared of them also which isn't fair. Dogs should be out in the park, they should be exercised, it's ok for them to be on footpaths, as a parent with a child in a buggy, you don't have right over the pathways.

However going back to the point, dog owners should be responsible and that means putting them on a lead if they won't listen when called back.

This is why we have £5 million Public Liability insurance for our dog-walking business. We've never needed to claim and I hope we never do...

I hate dogs off leads in pubic places. It should be an offence and the sooner more people start suing the sooner owners will think twice about other people.

Had my trouser leg ripped by a dog several years ago. Dog was "just being friendly". Owner laughed it off and walked on. Trousers were part of a suit and ruined.

Child had after school sandwich taken from his hand by a dog. Dog owner thought it was funny. "He wasn't doing any harm" - Child was frightened half to death.

Same child had brand new birthday present ball punctured by a dog on the beach. No ball for the day so no game. Dog owner apologised and said "Sorry, he's a dog, he loves balls".

Finally I ran over a dog recently. Off lead, came from nowhere, owners were several hundred yards away in adjacent fields. Car damaged, everyone distressed. Should have sued but it didn't cross my mind at the time I was just glad no-one was hurt and was so very upset by what "I" had done. It wasn't until several days later that I thought about it.

Jean, why is it unreasonable to ask someone to move their dog off the footpath? I'd rather keep some distance between dogs and DS in his buggy. Animals are unpredictable. I don't like having to squeeze past a big dog. Isn't it polite to move your dog out of people's way rather than let it sniff people or prams?

The thing is that if you don't know the dog in question you don't know whether it's going to ignore you, walk past, jump at you or try to bite you, more so if you don't have experience with dogs to be able to gauge their behaviour.

If you're scared of dogs it's highly likely you would have in depth knowledge of dog behaviour cues so it's perfectly reasonable to jump back when a dog is coming towards you.

You can't liken it to jumping away from a spider because they aren't pets with owners who should have them under control.

It's also no use the op's friend saying she didn't call the dog back because it ignores people, others who don't know the dog aren't to know that.

Of course it's polite but they are no less entitled to be there than you are, why don't you move?

Diddl, not always. I would say in most cases you would be correct, but highly trained dogs, working dogs etc are considered under control as long as they can be recalled.

The MuttDog could probably get 100 yds away from me before I would consider her out of control - her recall is fantastic and she will stop whatever she is doing immediately her name is heard. However she needs to be able to hear me, so a 100 yd shout is about right.

My friends Spaniels are working dogs and trained to the whistle. They can be completely out of sight and in deep scrubland, but will recall as soon as they hear the correct blast. They can even differentiate between different whistles/number of blasts/what they mean.

But I doubt Average Joe would train their dogs to that standard - it's bloody hard work

yanbu
the dig was early not under close control, for that they would need to be very close to their handler.
imo all dogs should be on lead in all public places except for secure 'runs'.

dig = dog

Anyone who thinks strangers should expect dogs who are running towards them to run straight past is a fool. That may be what your dog does, but how is the stranger to know that and be confident it will always do that?

I've had many a dog take an interest in my ankles. How far they wanted to go I had no idea, I didn't wait to find out. I've had a dog cross the road to have an argument with me, so I certainly would move well out of the way of any off lead dog who isn't near its walker.

We had insurance for our dog in case of situations like this, so ur friend may be covered - I do think it's the dog owners responsibility irrelevant of lead too TBH.

Of course it's polite but they are no less entitled to be there than you are, why don't you move?

What if I can't move away eg trapped between dog and lake?
I do think people have more right to the footpath than dogs. Would you force a mum and child into the mud because you felt dog has equal right to use the footpath?

Isn't a dog only under control if it is walking next to you?

No. It's an offence for your dog to be dangerously out of control, which means that it attacks someone or goes to attack someone, or it attacks someone's pet.

There are then strict punishments. Up to 6 months in prison and an unlimited fine for having a dangerously out of control dog, as well as the dog being destroyed and a potential ban on owning future dogs. Up to 5 years for allowing your dog to injure someone. Up to 14 years in prison for allowing your dog to kill someone. Up to 3 years for allowing your dog to attack a service dog.

There are Public Space Protection Orders, which require owners to have their dogs on leads, clean up after your dog and limit how many dogs you may walk, but these are only in place in some public areas. Not complying with a PSPO has a £100 on-the-spot fine. There must be signs showing that there is a PSPO in place.

There's nothing to say that the dog in the OP was out of control. It will depend on what evidence both sides have - if the dog was unlikely to hassle the woman and was running along normally, it may be judged that a reasonable person wouldn't have jumped and therefore the injuries are not the dog owners fault. Alternatively, if the dog looked scary and a reasonable person would have felt at risk and moved, the dog owner is likely to be found liable.

Anchor You seem to have missed out something important. 'Dangerously out of control' is described on government websites as including a dog which 'behaves in a way that makes a person worried that it might injure them.' A dog running towards a person can be interpreted in a number of different ways. It would be foolhardy of a dog walker to assume others regard their pet as friendly.

I always stood still with my brood to let the dog go past. We put hands behind backs as well (I was bitten by what we used to call an Alsation? when I was a lass. Nasty)

I really hope the woman's solicitor deters her from suing.

She is responsible for her own dog phobia and her own actions. She chose to run away from her fear stimulus and in the course of doing so was injured.

Unless the dog did something which would have caused someone without a phobia to run away- barked, snarled or jumped up- I cannot see how the woman's injuries are as a result of anything but her own irrational fear, and no one else is responsible for that.

People have no way of knowing whether a dog running towards them is going to run on past or not. You wouldn't have to have a phobia to think getting out of the way is a good idea.

I've always understood that you shouldn't jump / flap about etc., you should stand very still, arms folded out of the way. So in this case, I would think the woman caused her own injury.

As a runner who's nearly been taken out a dozen times by dogs running through my legs and tripping me up I'm afraid my sympathies are with the injured person. Never once had an apology either, just glares from the owners.