to think dp is being a twat?

[holdmybeer]

Ds 1(4) struggles emotionally, he doesn't listen, gets upset easily and is prone to tantrums. No special needs, just an emotionally immature 4 year old.

From the minute he got up this morning dp (not his dad) has been laying into him "don't do that" and dishing out empty threats "we'll cancel the holiday" (in a couple of weeks time)

AIBU to want a more positive approach such as "why don't we try this?" and that any consequences should be immediate and realistic and if possible relate to the issue in hand?

We've had a terrible day with ds 1 culminating in a 40 minute tantrum trying to get him out of the supermarket and into the car, not helped by dp and his constant tirade of negativity.

I make no excuses for ds's behaviour. It is frustrating as hell but he's 4, how does focusing his attention on what he's not to do help?!

[Psycobabble]

I agree empty threats are pointless too if your not going to follow through then there is no consequence for his behaviour

However I disagree dp was out of order for not letting him put shopping on the checkout. Yes it's a minor thing but replace that with something else you don't want him to do that he does ... And you have a tantruming child because they can't do what they want ultimately .

Ds went through a bit of a bad patch of tantruming behaviour when he was 4 which suprised me because he was never one for throwing tantrums when younger. There is prob a reason for it maybe insecurity due to new sibling so while I wouldn't come down to hard on ds you need to set up boundaries and consequences for his behaviour and nip it in the bud

What worked for me was making time for one and one with ds more often , I'm not saying you don't but it can be easy to miss that time with the busy day to day stuff of life . Whatever he likes , reading, a favourite game etc etc , this can also be used as a way of getting him to behave " if you walk nicely all round the shops we will have time for " whatever activity" later

Sticker and reward charts are good

Setting out expectations for behaviour before a trip out

And sticking to any consequences you set! If you say no tv for example then it's no tv , even if that results in a 40 minute breakdown. I also tried to ignore (were safe to) ds when he was having said breakdown !

Sorry if that sounds obvious it's just what I tried and it worked well , in the midst of all this bad behaviour I felt quite unsure of what to do for the best at first

You need to speak to dp about what you are going to do in terms of rewards and also consequences for bad behaviour . Agree it and stick to it. It may be that with the added stress of another child dp has less patience than he did or may worry how the behaviour will affect younger dc which may explain ye change in his attitude

[Medusacascade]

OP I'm too tired to write up a reasoned response but I get where you are coming from. I've been through a similar situation. My DS would have 40 minute meltdowns in shops at that age too. It's exhausting but sometimes shops just cannot be avoided. He was finally diagnosed with ASD at 9. we still have 40+ minute meltdowns. But they are unstoppable and just need to ride them out. Ignore the smacking advice. It's horse shit. I'm not saying your child has ASD or anything like that. I just think you are doing a lot better than you at being given credit for. Plenty of positive attention and praise at every possible opportunity. It does work.

[xenapants]

I don't think your DP is "being a twat", as you charmingly put it. I think he's at the end of his rope with an extremely badly behaved little boy and an ineffective mother who refuses to parent him properly and panders to it. Letting a tantrum go on for 40 minutes is absolutely inexcusable.

[RubbleBubble00]

Op some harsh replies. Your patenting sounds very similar to mine esp dealing with my eldest (adhd) and middle child who is very emotionally reactive.

Smacking teaches children to hit - useless. I'd never encountered extended tantrums until ds2. No point reasoning or making threats mid tantrum. I probably would have popped him in back of car and sat with him until calm. He's got to learn how to bring himself down when emotionally overwhelmed.

[xenapants]

Emotionally overwhelmed, my backside. The child is four and needs to behave. As someone pointed out, he'll be starting school next year. Then what? The mother is indulging his silly tantrums. I bet she's an "Oh, don't do that, dear" type and her poor partner - who no doubt isn't allowed to discipline him either - is at the end of his tether.

[holdmybeer]

Some interesting responses, thanks for the variety, one of the reasons I posted on AIBU is that it's never a one sided argument so can help you see things more impartially. I will take on board that perhaps my expectations of ds's behaviour have not kept up with his age and that I should expect more from him.

I do love the assumptions about my parenting though! ds is pulled up on his behaviour and receives apropriate rewards and consequences. His behaviour is improving but he is young for his age and still very impulsive. He is at preschool and he does occasionally receive timeout for his behaviour there and I fully support them when that happens. Only once has it been for anything I would class as serious (hitting another child) and this resulted in further consequences at home. Other times it typically relates to not listening to what he has been told and we are working with the preschool to improve this using the same techniques at home that his teachers use to reinforce their methods.

I stepped back this afternoon and watched how dp would deal with him as he rarely sees that side to ds. (Also, you can't positively parent a child when another parental figure has already gone down the negative route without undermining them) It was his tackling of the tantrum that resulted in the 40 minutes to get from supermarket to a point where we could safely drive away....

[decisionsdecisions123]

I imagine that its all over and done with a lot quicker Op because you allow your son to do exactly as he pleases so therefore there will be less tantrums to deal with. He had an almighty tantrum in the supermarket because he suddenly wasn't allowed to do as he wished.

I wonder if there was so much thought put into rewards and consequences in the 50s each time a mother wanted to take her child out to the shops!

[Vintage45]

I don't like the sound of your new partner.

[Fatmomma99]

I would say two things to you and your DP:

If you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always got.
and
The behaviour that you comment on is the behaviour that you'll get.

So in order to make changes to your DS's behaviour, look to yourselves and what you can change and see if this makes a difference. Find things to praise and comment on those. Ignore where you can and pick your battles. Make consequences immediate and relevant (cancelling a holiday is a horrible threat and obviously bollocks)

Good luck

[Vintage45]

Can I just also point out that the OP has stated that DP's attitude has changed since one of his own has come along.

[NickiFury]

I can't believe the posts you're getting here. I think your DP sounds like a petulant dick head and this "tantrum" could have been easily prevented. Sounds like it's the Grown Adult in this situation that needs a few guidelines and boundaries.

[Vintage45]

Sounds like your 4 year old is acting out. He's very aware that your partner has changed towards him. You, however are overcompensating for this. I feel very sad for the child.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I live in the land of attachment, gentle parenting. Next to no one hits their children here and you almost never hear anyone shout at them either.

I have to say the children here are more polite, better behaved and less violent. When I lived in London there was lots of shouting, hitting and general 'line-drawing' with children and the kids in London seemed less well-behaved.

Added to that your DP has changed since his child was born.

I see no issues with having DS 'help' with shopping or talking to him rather than threatening with stupid consequences.

[Vintage45]

I live in London, don't shout or smack and neither do any of my friends, our children are also very polite

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Possibly not in my bit of London. The tram to and from New Addington was an education.

[goldensquirrel]

I agree with Nicki and I'd add to that 'poor kid' - sounds like his out of favour now with your DP.

I have a 4 year old and don't really understand how a '4' year old can be anything other than 'emotionally immature', he's '4' of course he is!!

Some of these posts remind my why I hate Mumsnet these days- the advice is so uninformed and offensive. Don't listen to this stuff and show your child some love. He's 4 that is 'only 4' not 'he's 4 and old enough to know better'. He's a small child, your DP is an adult, your expectations should be much lower as your setting up a situation of favouritism for the second and feeling of failure for this poor kid!

[goldensquirrel]

I thought all 'outstanding' nurseries and preschools didn't use 'time out'. I certainly would not have used one that had this in place.

Don't listen to people using terms like 'brat'- these are not nice people and I have found in life that those kind of parents- the most aggressive and confrontational ones have the most problems. They are unable to feel anything other than a feeling that their child is their adversary - it was probably the way they were treated but this is 'not' the answer and that cycle needs to be broken!

[Sometimesithinkimbonkers]

We use timeout.... Always have. Works very well in a family setting, not sure about nursery.
I have DS who is 8 and still amazing at tantrums. DS2 Is 6 and severely autistic rabid beast in a supermarket and DD 4 Who very rarely tantrums nowadays but did 1-2.

Talking and exposing helps. "DS we are going to Tesco. We will be really quick. You can choose 2 items but as its busy mum and dad will be packing."

Also a debrief after and a consequence for that dirt of behaviour. Our would have had 4 minutes on the step and then discussed what the behaviour was bad and how it wold change.

[Katenka]

It sounds like neither of you are handling it well.

Empty threats, pointless.

Telling him he can't put stuff on checkout: totally depends if my ds (just turned five) was taking too long I would at the same.

In your op you said he had a 40 minute tantrum from trying to get him out of the car seat. So it was the check out.

My ds will blame anyone and everyone when he isn't doing what he is supposed to. Last night he didn't go to sleep because dh 'put his pillow the wrong way round'

It's possible that your son is picking up that when he blames your dp, you accept that and become negative towards dp. Absolving ds.

I think you and dp need a calm talk where you both lay your problems with each other out and come up with a plan that you both agree and stick to.

Either way this can't continue.

[Katenka]

Can I just also point out that the OP has stated that DP's attitude has changed since one of his own has come along.

I have known loads of mothers (on here and RL) change when a new baby is born. You are knackered, have less patience and time to deal with messing about.

It's not always a case of now he has a baby of his own his dss can piss off.

[TheMaddHugger]

time for a hard chat with DP. Favoritism is not on !

((((((((((Hugs))))))))))) You DS

[Duckdeamon]

Surprised so many posters think the 4yo/OP are the issue here: DP sounds a PITA!

In what ways has your P's behaviour changed towards DS since you had his biological child? You say he was more patient and less negative before. IS it "just" tiredness, or something more?

Do you or he spend much time with DS1 alone?

Agree with PPs about avoiding supermarkets! Timed collection pick up is free (if you have internet at home of course). If your P wanted bits for mother's day HE could just have done the shopping, with DS2 or alone.

[Spandexpants007]

Is DS generally sensitive to lack of sleep/clothes/food/emotions/his environment? Because if he is a very sensitive child the heavy discipline approach won't get the best out of him. You'd be much better listening/empathising/acknowledging and naming his feelings. You can still be extremely firm but come from a more empathic understanding stance.

I do think your DS is treating your DS in an unconstructive manner. Threats make crap parenting. DH needs to change how he parents to get a different reaction from DS. What he's doing now isn't working.

Buy some parenting books for him. He needs a strategy and direction.

[nam207]

Our 3.5 year old is very sensitive and has big emotional responses to stuff. Some people on here might think he was naughty or bratty but he's just not learnt how to control his emotions yet.

Its not always possible but we find preemption of his reactions usually helps and trying to make things fun or a game.

In the scenario given about the checkout our son may also have had a meltdown if he'd not been allowed to help but if we have said let's see how fast we can put everything on the conveyor he probably would have enjoyed the game.

Sometimes, especially, when you're tired and busy, its easy to forget to go down the fun, upbeat route and maybe that's why dp acted how he did.

When our DS does have a tantrum we acknowledge why he's having it, explain his feelings to him and move him somewhere he can be to calm down. If its not too bad we remind him of some of the other ways of dealing with his feelings at the time. If it is bad we do it afterwards. This approach seems to be working for us at least.

Ultimately, only you know your son and which methods might better to calm or inflame him. Your DP did handle things poorly though and it sounds like you need to sit down together and come up with a consistent strategy for dealing with your son.

[OhShutUpThomas]

When ds calmed down I asked him why he had got upset and it was because he had wanted to help put the shopping on the checkout but dp wouldn't let him as he was taking too long... 40 minutes later we left the car park thanks for that dp! Pick your battles!!!

Hmm.
First of all, he wasn't 'upset' - he was angry. He was pissed off because he hadn't had his own way with the shopping.

I really think it's important to make this distinction - he wasn't sad and devastated that he'd missed out on helping, he was in an absolute rage that your DP had said no. Really.

Next - it's perfectly reasonable to not let a 4 year old 'help' in some situations ie, queuing at the checkout. You should be able to say no to him without causing such a tantrum.

I do not mean to attack you parenting OP - we are all just trying our best but I do think that it seems that your approach of constant positivity and pandering in the face of unacceptably angry behaviour is not working.