To feel envious of people who grew up in non abusive homes with loving parents and therefore have good self esteem?

[SpeckledLily]

I've namechanged as I know it is not good to be envious but I can't help it.

My parents were very emotionally and physically abusive when I was a child; both narcissists with anger issues with my sister as the golden child. I was hit, called names, told I was useless, and just generally lived in fear. I was not really allowed friends as a)I was told that they would one day find out what I was really like and would not want to know me and b)because my parents used to go mad if I was friendly with someone and say I was disloyal to the family etc and they wouldn't talk to me for days if I'd been to a friend's house. It was weird, they wanted to crush me but didn't want anyone else to 'have' me.

I was very badly bullied all through high school, after we moved areas and I left my childhood friends behind. I was probably bullied for being weird. I also was conscious of the things my parents told me so if someone did want to be my friend then I couldn't quite commit to being a total, proper friend, for fear of what my parents might say or do. So therefore I never had a chance to develop that proper strong network of friends, and have struggled all of my life to make and maintain friendships. I feel so envious of people who have a huge core of solid, good friends that they've known since childhood.

I also feel envious of those that had decent, loving parents who brought them up to have good self esteem. I am now non contact with my parents and sister, and have had counselling but being realistic, I am never going to have normal, healthy self esteem that someone who has grown up in a rock solid loving home and been allowed to be themselves has. I will just have to make do with the self esteem that I have managed to develop for myself and accept the fact that I will always struggle with friendships.

AIBU to feel like this? Has anyone had similar experiences?

I could have written your OP. I feel exactly how you do when I think about it.

So I just don't think about it.

Life is journey, keep moving forward, looking back only causes pain.

Keep on going. from one survivor to another.

I think it is understandable to feel that way, but agree that it's unhelpful for your own self-esteem. Also, people who appear to have that perfect upbringing may be struggling with other areas of their lives or their past, for example, they still may not have good self-esteem, they still may not have a good network of friends, they may have had poor relationships with people or been in abusive relationships, or may have been bullied. You never know what goes in in other peoples lives; lots of people put on facades. Also you don't know what goes on behind closed doors. People often only want others to see what they want you to see.

Your feelings are NU but the world doesn't divide neatly into those who have had abusive childhoods which have caused huge damage and those who have had idyllic childhoods leading to inner confidence.

I had a basically happy childhood. One parent was extremely critical though-a perfectionist. I never looked right and often fell short of her standards.
Her criticism and mocking coupled with some bullying at school took a toll on my confidence but over the years it has recovered. Many other people are "in the middle" like this.
Life is complicated and most people's childhoods are a mix of fun times and problems.

If you met me you may envy my good childhood but you wouldn't know the details.

Anyone who had a really hard childhood isn't BU to be envious of others-but its more productive to focus on kindness to yourself.

OP has already achieved a lot and overcome a lot. I hope she learns to feel proud of herself.
I also think that only a minority of people have solid good friends that they have known since childhood and many people initially feel uncomfortable in social situations.

YANBU unreasonable OP. I am even envious (but proud) of my own DC. They at least have their father in their lives to play with them, take them swimming, use as a taxi and argue the toss with. My DD has a dad who spent hours braiding her hair and who drove her and her mates to theme parks and loads of other stuff that I couldn't dream of.

My own father abandoned me at age 6 with a bitter, abusive, narcissistic mother who scapegoated me because I loved my dad so much and showed that I missed him (also probably reminded her of him and his family too). I was isolated from the rest of my siblings and that has followed me into adulthood to a point where I have isolated myself to the fringes of society due to ingrained beliefs that I am weird, crazy and that there is something inherently wrong with me. Other people deserve a good and happy life, I don't. I remain in my bubble.

That is not something that can be let go of or got over. Yes, it can be overcome but unfortunately I did not realise the damage done until I was a mother myself and my mother started the same shit on my DC too. That is what prompted me into therapy but I don't have years to spend 'navel gazing' while I am trying to be emotionally present to make sure my own DC don't ever feel like I did. I have spent thousands on therapy to try to overcome it and I am more aware and understand but don't think I will ever be mentally healthy.

I too am envious of other mums who have family support, mums to go shopping with and loving, involved grandparents for their DC. I am also envious of my own DC who have a mum like me (!) who will fight to the ends of the earth for them and who will do all I can to make them happy, cares when they are sad etc. My mother took the ultimate act of revenge when I confronted her and cut me out of her life (and my siblings took her side), the evil witch, that should have been my deserved revenge, not hers .

The vast majority of people on this thread including myself have experienced abuse. That is why I find your posts extreme. Basically, you are telling me that my experience is not valid because it is not the same as other abuse sufferers.

Leaving aside the fact that you can't speak for anybody else on the thread apart from yourself; I have repeatedly said that therapy can work for some people and that's great.

You on the other hand have criticised the OP for 'allowing' it to affect her and not making what you think are the right choices. You have cast doubt on lasting damage to victims personalities. You don't seem to be able to understand that just because you and other people on this thread have found therapy helpful it's not a magic bullet.

If anybody is invalidating other people's experiences it's you.

Bill
Again you are completely misrepresenting what I have said. At no point have I criticised the OP. You are being offensive.

How old are you, OP? I can relate to much of your post: abusive, neglectful, emotional bullies as parents, bullied mercilessly at school, very few friends.

I won't claim to have any answers for you but I just wanted to let you know that it is possible to rebuild your sense of self and to be happy.

I do occasionally feel pangs of sadness and regret that I don't have a supportive, loving family but instead I have created that environment in my own house: DH, DS and I are all kind and loving to each other and it is a wonderful place to be.

Massive hugs to you. I hope you manage to create your own happiness.

I am not saying that to be harsh I am just asking you why you are allowing your parents to still control how you feel about yourself even though you are non contact. You have a choice now about how you face the world and how you feel about yourself please don't hand that choice back to your parents by focusing on the past.

That seems pretty unequivocal to me that you are saying that the OP is unhappy because she is choosing or allowing herself to feel like that. And it sounds pretty victim blaming too. If that's not what you meant perhaps you might consider using less accusatory language.

You've also ignored that there are other people on the thread who've said that they don't feel it's something they can ever fully recover from because you're only concerned about having your own position validated and not about recognising anybody else's.

Perhaps you might like to have a read of this :

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1532-5415.2007.01537.x/abstract?userIsAuthenticated=false&deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=

It's a study on the effects of child abuse on geriatrics and concludes that the effects of child abuse can last right up until old age. But hey, they must have fabricated the entire study right?

And I find your attitude of negating the feelings of people who don't feel they can just make a choice they're going to recover pretty damn offensive as well Chaz

This is where I do have issues with counselling and therapy; I'm sorry, but I do. If you say it has not worked or it only worked to a point it's turned back around on you and you're told you weren't ready for it or didn't commit properly.

It's generally accepted some medical conditions can't be cured: why can't this be extended to mental health as well?

Bill
Funny how you completely failed to quote the following from the same post
"Recognise what you have achieved without your parents support and help, maybe in the face of their active opposition. You have had the courage to pull away from your parent's malign influence and to build your own life. You should be proud of yourself"

"So I will say it for you - you have done a remarkable job of protecting yourself from your toxic family - hold your head up high."

Is that accusatory and victim blaming too?

As you are cherry picking people's posts to suit your agenda, I am not going to respond to you any more.

Daffodil if a therapist turns things round on you like that it says that they are a pretty poor therapist, more focussed on their own ego than on helping.
Different types of therapy/treatment/counselling are effective for different people. Sometimes the help offered is a poor fit.

The analogy to physical health is helpful.

Some issues can be "cured".

Some conditions are chronic but help is available for them to be lived with more easily.

Some conditions are very serious and have a huge impact on a person's life.

Nevertheless I think its helpful to focus on the possibilities for feeling better.

YANBU unreasonable OP. I am even envious (but proud) of my own DC. They at least have their father in their lives to play with them, take them swimming, use as a taxi and argue the toss with. My DD has a dad who spent hours braiding her hair and who drove her and her mates to theme parks and loads of other stuff that I couldn't dream of.
Yes. Yes.

Just about to start Cruse counselling (literally - in five minutes!) to try to finally get over my dad's death. 50 years on.

Pippi I'm not talking about therapists but attitudes towards therapy. The attitude is very much that it works and if it does not it is in some way to do with the person. I don't much care for that attitude.

You did say she she was choosing or allowing herself to feel the way she does. You praised her for achieving, things, for doing things. You didn't once acknowledge that she had a right to feel the way she did or that it wasn't her fault or was at least understandable. You don't seem to value the experience of other abuse survivors beyond looking at ways they mirror your own, getting away from it, forgetting it and putting it behind you seem to be the only way you can comprehend another survivor feeling. If they don't or can't do that you characterise it as a failing on their part, something they 'allow' or 'choose'.

Other people have different experiences from you. They won't ever recover. If you want evidence of that, as well as that study on the effects abuse still has in old age, then go and Google the rates of suicide, addiction, early death, poor physical health, poor employment prospects and mental health of abuse survivors. They are absolutely shocking. And I'm not about to accept that just because something worked for you all those people just aren't doing the right things or making the right choices.

And if we're discussing cherry picking you chose to ignore that study which directly contradicted you. And there are plenty more where that came from.

You are the person negating the experiences of others by refusing to accept that for some survivors a full recovery isn't even anything close to an option.

To those posters who say they feel envious of their own children - I do think this is a massively positive sign that you are taking steps to break any cycle of abuse. I have felt envious of my DC growing up in a calm home where no one shouts and the adults care enough to ensure thy have warm coats, shoes that fit, clean clothes, some money in their pocket etc. but I know in turn that my dad felt envious of us, because although we were physically quite overlooked and our home life was angry and chaotic, we were told we were loved and however imperfect my parents were, they did mean that even if they couldn't show it in practical ways. So our childhood was way better than my dad's horrible childhood, and my DCs is infinitely better than mine. I'm hoping this is the generation that breaks the cycle for good and that if my DC have children, they will remember their own childhood as happy and stable and emulate it in how they rear their own children, together with any improvements they are able to make over things that I've got wrong.