To not understand how couples who work can afford a second child??

[TheAngelofNitshillRoad]

Without waiting until the first child is in school, anyway!!

DD is 13 months. I work part time (3 days per week) - we pay approx £600 per month on nursery fees.

I worked full time before I went on mat leave. Only got statutory maternity pay after the first six weeks. I took 9 months off and by the end of it we were completely skint. We're building back up now but it's hard because the nursery fees are high and obviously I've had a significant salary reduction. We've stripped back our outgoings as much as we can, so we cover our outgoings and have a little bit of disposable income each month, but it's hard to save.

We had always considered starting to try for another baby towards the end of this year. I didn't want too big an age gap between DD1 and DC2 and I'll be honest, I'm really beginning to feel that broody feeling. But I just can't see how we can do this.

It seems to me that while I'm on mat leave, we will need to pay the nursery to keep DD1's nursery place open (although I don't think I would put her in for three full days each week, I wouldn't want her to feel pushed out at home with new baby). If I go back down to statutory maternity pay, we physically will not have the cash available to pay these nursery fees. So we have no option but to out DC2 off for....ages really! I've been trying to save where I can, transfer the odd twenty quid to my ISA but it's a slow, slow process.

Am I missing something?? Are we approaching this the wrong way?? How do people afford this??

[PopcornFiend]

4.5 year age gap here.. DD1 started school 2 months before DD2 arrived. We couldn't have afforded 2x nursery fees, or a nanny, nor could we have afforded for me to be SAHM. Very delicate balance for us, only sustainable by the nearly 5 yr age gap! Works wonderfully though, as while on mat leave I get quality time with DD2 whilst DD1 at school.

[chaosagain]

We dropped down to 2 days a week nursery days for the eldest (from 3) while I was on mat leave with number 2 and then had a short and difficult period of having both in nursery before the eldest's 3 year old nursery allowance kicked in. That eased things but it was still an expensive 1.5 years until the eldest went to school (2.5 year gap). Nursery vouchers helped. For a while I was working for virtually nothing (after nursery fees and travel costs) but figured it was worth it for the long term investment to keep working and have a smallish gap. Luckily, DH got a new job that meant he could cover all our other outgoings for a while.

I did, though, change to self employment from working in a permanent job after DC2 and this has allowed me to be around a lot during school holidays and we've moved the younger one to a pre-school at his older sister's primary. I use wrap around care (CM) to give me 3 long working days. I used to think that it would all get easier when school kicked in but between the school day ending at 3.30pm, the school holidays and all the added days for INSET, schools being shut for election, tutorial days and the odd child sick day, it's all frankly pretty tricky to combine with a job that isn't really flexible.

The younger one goes into reception in September and DC3 is due in April - definitely went for the bigger gap with this one!

[LBOCS2]

Yep. They don't fall under 'pay' and as such count as a benefit which your employer is not legally allowed to take away from you - just like a company mobile or car (or indeed, full pension contributions).

We are having our second with 3.5 years between them. DD1 is entitled to 15hrs free nursery a week as she's over three, so our bill has gone down for that - which we're putting away and saving. By the time I go back she'll be in preschool, so it'll just be half a day each day we have to pay for with a childminder, plus the full time fees for DD2 on top. It's not cheap but will only be for a year.

It is bloody expensive though.

[DaniAlvez]

I had my childcare vouchers paid for in full by my employer in 2014 when I went down to SMP. This was due to the vouchers being considered a contractual benefit provided by my employer which meant they couldn't retract it. The same as holiday pay and pension contributions. They can't make any deductions from SMP so they had to pay for the vouchers themselves. I haven't read anything to suggest this has changed?

[Xmasbaby11]

I kept dd1 in nursery 3 days a week for my sanity - couldn't have coped with her at home all the time! Plus she was used to nursery and bored at home.

[RubbleBubble00]

I withdrew dc1 from daycare until I went back to work after dc2. yes risk place loss but couldn't afford it otherwise.

[thisagain]

From my experience, a lot of people have family who help. I know a lot of people whose mums looks after the children and sometimes multiple mums (mothers-in-law, step mums) helping out! Not that I'm at all bitter!

[LifeOfBriony]

Yes I had mine 20 years ago and a childminder was the only option for us. Some of my mother and baby group had their DC2 quickly, but not all. Of those who had a second child I think I had the biggest gap.

[MargaretCabbage]

I'm currently expecting DC2 with a 20 month age gap. After I had DS my DH started working night shifts which meant we would only need to use nursery a few days a month when I went back to work three days a week. I'll only get SMP but DS won't be going to nursery while I'm on maternity leave. When I do go back to work we won't be paying two sets of nursery fees for that long before DS gets the free hours when he turns three.

[MoonriseKingdom]

We both work and are expecting our 2nd child when our daughter turns 2. We are very lucky to be currently managing without childcare fees through a combination of my husband's job being flexible (runs a shop with his sister) and grandparent help. I work 3 days. My husband looks after our DD on 2 days and my mother one day. Sometimes my MIL also helps. The downside to this is that in the couple of months before Christmas when shop business peaks we never had a day off together.

Some people are very lucky with grandparent help. I know a grandmother who looks after the toddler children of her two daughters five days a week! I don't know the full details but I am sure they are not paying her what private childcare would cost.

I think things are so hard for ordinary working families. I really feel sad for women who would like to return to work but the finances make it uneconomic. They then lose out in the long term on career progression, pensions etc.

[Pico2]

Childcare vouchers are a non-cash benefit and must still be paid during maternity leave, with no deductions taking you below SMP.

That is the HMRC line here. However I think that some employers ignore this guidance and women don't often want to challenge their employer on it.

[HowBadIsThisPlease]

Childcare vouchers

vouchers.employersforchildcare.org/media/Childcare%20vouchers%20during%20maternity%20leave%20(parents).pdf

"Questions and Answers
Childcare Vouchers during Maternity Leave
Q. Can my employer deduct my Childcare Vouchers from my Statutory Maternity Pay?
A. No. Statutory Maternity Pay must be received in full. In the event that you are in receipt of SMP only or no salary at all, your employer is obliged to pay the value of the vouchers"

But do check for yourself as well

[LeanneBattersby]

We had three under five at one point. I didn't have any of them in paid childcare while I was on mat leave. That would have been a waste of money. My 4-y-o obviously got his free 15 hours.

My husband doesn't earn a lot (25k) and I just got stat mat pay but we weren't on the poverty line. We didn't buy many new clothes and we couldn't go on holiday but I wouldn't have said we were poo. You just cut your cloth accordingly.

[Babyroobs]

I guess a lot of couples have grandparents who help out. We had 4 kids in seven years and were lucky enough to have my parents helping out a litle but the main reason we were able to do it is that we work around each other so no childcare costs. Dh works 9-5, I work evenings/ nights/ weekends.

[LilacAndLovely]

I'm completely wrong on the vouchers...sorry Just been googling and can't believe I never knew this.

I'm actually gutted because we cancelled my childcare vouchers for my maternity leave time...it would have been much more beneficial for us to have kept our childcare vouchers going when we had ds2 and let my company keep ploughing in the £240 a month for the 7 months I was on statutory/no maternity pay. We would have had a load saved up in vouchers for when I went back to work and would have worked out much better in the long term.

[HowBadIsThisPlease]

We had two pre-schoolers in childcare for about 2 years and steadily made a loss every month. For a little while one of us only was working; for most of the time we both worked but it was hardly better, in fact I am not sure it actually was better, but there was very little in it. We lost a 3 figure sum from savings every month of those two years no matter how hard we tried to economise. There was one very hard cold winter.

[HouseplantInvasion]

I'm currently on mat leave with DC2 and you are definitely entitled to revive the full child care voucher amount whilst on SMP without sacrificing any (if your employer pays any extra pay above SMP then you sacrifice that or the vouchers).
We have a 2.5 year gap, and kept DC1 in nursery (dropped down to 2 days tho) for stability. Both DCs will be at nursery for a few months until DC1 starts school in sept, and we'll be making a loss, but just taking the hit or a few months.

[PennyHasNoSurname]

Are you eligible for Child Tax Credits? These help us fulfil our childcare bill (even though the Childcare element of it is tiny).

[TheAngelofNitshillRoad]

I'm always amazed at the amount of people I meet who rely solely on grandparent childcare. All four of DDs grandparents work full time! I thought that was the case more often than not but clearly I was wrong!!

[AnnaT45]

This is really interesting on the childcare vouchers. I receive them but it's not in my contract as no needed them when I started five years ago. Does anyone know Would I still get them if not in my contract but they had been being paid?

[Oysterbabe]

My first is only 8 weeks but we'll be trying for a second when she's 18 months as I'm getting old. Plan is we'll take her out of nursery while I'm on maternity. I'll return to work when she's 3 and getting the 30 free hours.

[TheAngelofNitshillRoad]

No, we're not eligible for CTC.

The childcare voucher thing means it's not quite so insurmountable actually. Also, DH pointed out that if we were to start TTC in March/April 2017 then DD would actually be three by the time the new baby came. I guess that's not too long a period to wait if we really couldn't afford it this year

[LilacAndLovely]

There are five women in my department at work that have had babies recently/are just coming back from mat leave. ALL of them are leaving the baby with grandparents and have no paid for childcare (and I do know this for definite, i'm fairly friendly with them all).

Childcare seems to be the 'other' in my neck of the woods.

[TheAngelofNitshillRoad]

That's a good point - can employer wriggle out by stating that the childcare vouchers are non-contractual?

[minipie]

yes to the childcare vouchers thing, I'm on unpaid mat leave at the moment and my employer has confirmed it is paying my usual childcare voucher payments tis fab, it's free money!

In answer to the OP - in our case, high salaries.

TBH I am a bit surprised that you would aim to continue your DD1's nursery place while on mat leave if finances are so tight - that is a massive luxury. I know lots of pretty well off couples who have not kept up their DC1's childcare while on mat leave with DC2. It's hard work if the eldest is not yet in nursery school but it is doable.