To see friend less because she hates my 5 yo

[OhForFrigSake]

Title says it all really. My good friend has a DD the same age as my DS, the problem is that my son can be a bit boisterous and giddy and well, a boy and her daughter is very quiet and not terribly outgoing at all. My DS has a brother and has learned to be assertive whereas her daughter is an only child and is not at all assertive. She is a lovely girl though and DS is genuinely good friends with her, they don't fight and he doesn't pick on her and they have a nice time when they're together with no falling out. We have been on holiday a number of times and the children have always got on great.

The problem is that when we're together friend is constantly 'helicoptering' over the children and monitoring everything they do - almost as if she expects DS to be doing something to her DD. It's like she is policing the relationship.

She is also constantly snapping at DS and telling him off - she is on him in a second. She tells him off far more than she would her DD. He's not an angel and he does mess about a fair bit but he is only 5 and nothing he does is in malice, it's just usually being a bit silly IYKWIM. I do always pull him up on silly behaviour but because my friend is on his back constantly I don't even get chance to. It's really like she can't stand him sad

I'm not making excuses for my DS but it does really make me feel sad when we're together as he is always getting told off, even when he's not really doing anything 'telling off worthy.' If her DD does something 'naughty' she even blames DS there saying she's copying - that she must have got it from DS.

I feel really sad. I do think DS is more boisterous than her DD and whilst He can be annoying, she could just leave it to me to tell him off and get off his back a bit and let the children play - because they do play lovely together when she is not policing everything. I really feel like not seeing them as it just makes me feel so depressed. AIBU to see her less? I feel like it might ruin the friendship.

You can be firm. Next time she tells him off tell her to back off.

My son has asd and God love him I need a moment in the mornings and I'm aware that he can be irritating but I wouldn't tolerate any of my friends waiting for a chance to tell him off. They wouldn't dare.

You have to stick up for your bairns even if it does cost a friendship.

Or knock the meet ups on the head and just see each other alone.

I know you only have my word for it here that my son isn't a complete nightmare and 'boisterous' isn't code for banshee like demon spawn but honestly, annoying is what he generally is - stuff like saying 'look DD this spaghetti looks like slimy worms' and giggling. I get this is annoying possibly and disruptive if you're all sat around having a meal together and it is something I would address at home saying 'stop being silly DS and eat your meal nicely please' but she'd jump in and tell him straight off.

Feel free to shoot me down because I don't have kids so maybe can't comment, but I had a friend accuse me of disliking her dd. I was baffled by it at first but when I thought about it, I probably did unconsciously make it known that I wasn't entirely delighted by her company. I probably hovered and didn't have much patience but the real problem was I couldn't stand how my friend let her dd act.

She was extremely rude, swearing, spitting, grabby, throwing tantrums, etc (she's 4), and my friend seemed oblivious to it. Every now n then she would shout NO! and that would be the end of it. Every time she spoke of her dd though, she was 'an Angel', 'so well behaved', and so on.

Maybe your friend just doesn't appreciate your parenting style? Not saying shes right to be like that but surely not everyone parents the same and so it can be a contentious issue. Maybe she's not aware of how she is around you and your ds and doesn't know she's upsetting you?

5 year olds say that spaghetti looks like worms. Saying silly things is one of the perks of being 5 imo.

I'd tell her that if she has an issue with your son to address it to you, but that from now on you will be telling him off if you feel it's merited. It's one thing to yell at your friend's child to stop doing something dangerous if you spot it first, but it sounds like she's picking on your DS simply for being 5.

Well from your subsequent posts OP it seems clear that your son is just being a 5 yr old. Sounds like the mate has issues, maybe have it out with her, see what she days?

Stop stressing that because he is a "boy" certain behaviours are acceptable / to be expected.

Maybe this friendship has run its course. If she finds your 5 year old annoying, it isn't very fair in a way as he is only little and I'm sure he has no malice in him, but goddammit some people really get on your tits, even little ones. If you are of the opinion that "boys" are a certain way and think things like obnoxious table manners aren't worthy of comment then as a family, perhaps she has gritted teeth the whole time you are over.

Very small things can be very annoying in determined small children. Not listening, repeating the same behaviour despite being asked not to.... they just don't get how annoying they are being and it sounds like you don't really, either. If a child is in your house I think it is ok to ask them to stop doing things (though nicely, of course, and it's better if the actual parent does)

Maybe it IS my parenting style but I don't see what more I can do apart from remind DS of his manners and pull him up on something 'bad' as soon as I see it. I certainly don't let him get away with anything. I know he can be annoying - God knows he annoys me sometimes but her DD can do too - she can do some really high pitched screeching when the kids are playing and is really bad for faffing around with her food for example but I wouldn't dream of telling her off for it because it's not my job really is it?

From what has been said, I would put money on your son being absolutely fine and this being her, not you OP.

Is she upsetting your son by telling him off or is he not that bothered? I wouldn't be too concerned if he isn't affected by it.

How about saying "I'll deal with this" when she next steps in. Also maybe suggest an outdoor activity with her so kids can burn off steam and make lots of noise without being pulled up on it.

How bad, I don't get how me saying that I address any bad behaviour I see can be taken as 'obnoxious table manners not being worthy of comment.' I just said that I don't let that kind of thing slide - I do pull him up.

Yes, he's annoying at times, her daughter is too - hell, all children are aren't they?

I have been on both sides of this. My dd (now 15) was always louder than her cousins ( all similar ages) but kinder and more of a sharer than her cousins. However my SIL decided that my dd was naughty and would spend her whole time telling DD off. The reality was that the other two would take things off dd (dd is the youngest of the three) and if she said anything SIL would accuse dd of not sharing. Even though they are now 15 and 16 I have never heard SIL ever say to her DD - 'why don't you let x have a go first?" It was always "can my dd have this because she never gets chance to have anything" - unsurprisingly my dd is not very interested in seeing her cousins anymore even though SIL is always trying to get them together.

On the other side I have withdrawn from a couple of friendships because friends' children were horrible to my dd - one was a child who everyone thought was an angel. Four families used to have a weekend away together - she was a few years older than dd and liked to boss all the kids around. The others listened to her but DD would not allow her to boss her around and so did what she wanted. This girl told the other kids that they were not allowed to play with my dd and made her walk back to our villa at Centerparcs on her own - a lady found her and helped her back to our villa. I only found this out later and cancelled the next weekend away. I haven't had any sort of confrontation with the parents but I don't make arrangements to see them anymore - if we happen to be somewhere and they are there all well and good - we are friendly and nice but the mother knew that her dd didn't like my dd but never pulled her up on it. As an example the girl once gave everyone a shiny stone but wouldn't give one to dd - when dd asked the adult why she couldn't have one when everyone else had one the adult said it wasn't up to her it was up to her daughter - my dd was about 4 hers was about 7.

The other one was a child who constantly bit my child - the mother knew as the nursery had told her but she thought it wasn't a problem as he hadn't drawn blood. I just withdrew.

Sorry for the essay and hijack.

Maybe you should start telling her kid off after all she's paved the way.

But seriously your son sounds fine (and funny tbf) I would chuckle at the worm thing myself. She doesn't have the right to tell him off.

Look, if DS was bashing her DD I would understand, as babies they went through a phase where one week DD bit my DS finger and the opposite happened the following week as we told them both off. It's more just that her daughter is so quiet usually so it's DS commenting about the spaghetti worms and getting an eye roll and telling off.

She just genuinely seems to not be able to stand him. She finds him irritating beyond belief it seems.

Sorry, just to add, my friend eventually told me if I didn't like her dd or how she parented then I should fuck off and not be so judgemental. She was completely right!

Gamer, I wouldn't tell her DD off because as I said she's not very assertive at all so if I said anything to her she would be very upset indeed. Plus, I love the DD, she is a fantastic little girl.

Dd is 4 and also boisterous and silly compared to her friends - lots of running around and shrieking and rough and tumble. Her best friend is gentle and quiet and well behaved and I'm always on edge when they play together in case dd is naughty. But actually they just have a lively happy time. If the friend's parents told my dd off once I'd be really embarrassed. If they did it like your friend I don't think I could hack it. It's undermining.

I wonder if it's because her DD is so quiet, she literally sits and eats her meals and doesn't say a word, she plays quietly by herself (she's an only child) and generally you wouldn't know she was there. When DS comes they are so happy to be together that they're both a bit giddy and racing around but then DS is the one who gets in trouble.

I just don't think I can take the stress of more play dates because I come away feeling like DS is really naughty and I am a bad parent. I don't think these things are true but my friend must clearly think so

Tell her to fuck off.

I have dds and Dss.

Silly cow.

I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for her bairn tbh. Not allowed to be a kid makes for tough teenage years imo.

You can't let it go on your son is doing nothing wrong. Either tell her to pack it in or see her alone. I can't think of anything else. Your bairn doesn't deserve to be told off for not fitting into her own style of parenting.

If it upsets you then maybe see less of them,, maybe it's a friendship that's run its course. Yanbu to decide you don't need to feel on edge or judged and that you want to give ds a break too lol

Have you ever tried talking to her about it? I would have thought you could quite reasonably say something like "When DS does something wrong, would you mind leaving it to me to deal with? Usually you get there before me, and I think it's better if he hears it from me rather than someone else."

From what you've said, you're not unreasonable to cool things off a bit with her. I think you've bitten your tongue for a while over this and it could all come to a head in a blazing row with her.

The playdates sound very tense with a huge undercurrent. Not my idea of fun.
Shame for your son but he sounds likeable and I'm sure will have plenty of friends at school.

I'm cautiously siding with you on this one OP based on the examples you've given. But I think it's unfair to cool off what sounds like a close friendship (both for you and your DS) when you've not been pulling her up on telling your DS off for very little reason. I'd speak to her.

Like I said though, I'm only cautiously backing you. Simply because I've seen countless parents dismissing poor behaviour as their child being boisterous, wilful, assertive, just a boy, headstrong, etc. And I've also known them withhold all but the mildest examples of the behaviour when they're telling someone how X has fallen out with them because DS was just being a boy.

Why have you let the tellings off happen repeatedly if your DS wasn't misbehaving?

It is very hard for the parents of biddable children to get the other children. They want to believe that their amazing parenting turned out this quiet, obedient child. She thinks she can model her brilliant parenting and you will learn at her feet. They don't realise that children come with pre-installed software. Loud or quiet, shy or outgoing, active or passive.

None of which BTW is caused by sex or birth order. I guarantee that my 5 yo only-child DD is more boisterous than your DS. Because she's off the scales for that.