To feel sick about this RE Tony Blair and Immigration, apparently it didnt interest him.

[EatenEasterChocsAlready]

I am staggered to have come across these articles this morning. Someone has written a book about him and immigration, interviewing people in office at the time, and so on.

Staggered I actually feel sick.

I expect the backlash over this, BUT I feel ill, because I live in an area that was really suffering in 2007 and I had my first child then.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3466499/Conman-betrayed-Britain-immigration-utterly-amoral-PM-led-conspiracy-let-MILLIONS-migrants-breaking-rules-deceiving-public.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3466512/The-Eastern-Europeans-shouldn-t-worry-numbers-Blair-turned-blind-eye-impending-migration-crisis.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3466485/How-Blair-cynically-let-two-million-migrants-Explosive-biography-reveals-PM-s-conspiracy-silence-immigration-debate.html

[EatenEasterChocsAlready]

Yes I am aware of the wonderful job migrants do in the NHS, I am also aware that what Blair did was sinful. Utterly sinful to put workers under such pressure and work volume.

We can have immigration that fills the jobs we need filling without un controlled mass immigration. Which ironically also threatens to collapse the NHS.

[Chippednailvarnish]

It's quite obvious you don't understand. As Augusta has said the NHS is running on an immigrant workforce.

You could have started a reasoned well thought out debate, instead you have babbled in DM hysterical terms about a subject you appear to have little deeper knowledge of.

[EatenEasterChocsAlready]

Vertigo do not forget under this drive to massively increase multiculturalism, this suppression of true numbers, deliberate vagueness, 350,000 asylum seeker re packaged as economic migrants, no thought to integration or communities, and an over empathizing with other cultures, that Rotheram etc was operating.

I think there were a myriad of reasons why no one listened to the victims but its also very telling that this was the political background. This was the attitude flooding down from the top, from the people in power.

[ghostyslovesheep]

I think immigration is a really good thing to blame everything on - some people stop at that and believe it others choose to question that stance
I don't think immigration is the problem

[Piemernator]

Blair is the very devil himself and messed up many things including immigration.

[SpringingIntoAction]

It's quite obvious you don't understand. As Augusta has said the NHS is running on an immigrant workforce.

It really isn't. Look at the Dept for health figures. The vast majority of NHS workers are British. The 'immigrant' element by which I presume you mean EU and Commonwealth and other non-EU workers is not that huge amount that people who are not informed try to bandy about.

This is becoming a Polly Parrot phrase which is simply not true

[SpringingIntoAction]

You have to be aware that the NHS would collapse without immigration

Lol That is simply risible.

We have an NHS that is now free at the point of delivery to 400million EU citizens who have the right to come to the UK for treatment.

That's what will eventually ensure the NHS collapses. It cannot the Europe's Health Service. There isn't enough money for that

[EatenEasterChocsAlready]

Chipped, have you read the article posted which takes in my local hospital?

It seems to me your totally ignoring it?

And that you had not read any of the other articles?

I find your posts really rude and dismissive and probably what Tony Blair would have said in a high handed and arrogant way, had I confronted him about this at the time.

[llhj]

Op....you need to get a grip. Seriously, laying your birth fears at the door of immigration shows a very worrying level of self absorbation. Feeling physically sick at an autobiography written with a clear agenda is just a hysterical and bit dim, if I'm being brutal.

[EatenEasterChocsAlready]

"Migrants are creating added pressure because those coming to this country tend to be young couples wanting to start large families"

two million people came in a short space of time.


of course this had an impact on local services!

[SpringingIntoAction]

NATIONALITIES OF PERMANENT NHS STAFF - Sep 2013

Using NHS NCHS figures by Nationality

78.5 % British
3.6% EU
4.0% Commonwealth, excluding EU members
11,4% Unknown
2.6% Other

I wish people would seek out and analyse figures before they parrot phrases that have no basis in reality.

[EatenEasterChocsAlready]

laying your birth fears at the door of immigration shows a very worrying level of self absorbation

I have to go out shortly but just to clarify here.

I have not said I have a fear of birth because of immigration.

I was asked how immigration had affected me.

It affected me very personally in that, when I was pregnant with my first, and already had a fear of birth, it was not helped, because I could not rely on my local hospital to let me in.

It was a very worrying time for me, and would have been if everything at the hospital was functioning normally.

However - the hospital was not functioning normally and was under tremendous pressure and had to turn laboring women away.

This greatly added to my worries at the time.

I think it would to any normal person really, the thought of giving birth at the road side. As per the comment from the Birth Trauma people.

I cannot be any clearer really .

[Chippednailvarnish]

You might find me rude and dismissive, I find you hysterical and ignorant. Feeling sick? Sinful? Emotive language that doesn't actually support any argument.

As I said if you has posted a reasoned argument you would have started an interesting debate.

Article below regarding immigrants working for the NHS, is generally considered to understate the figures as it doesn't count immigrants who have taken British citizenship and GPs and agency staff.

www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jan/26/nhs-foreign-nationals-immigration-health-service

I have worked in the NHS and we ran extensive foreign recruitment drives because of nursing shortages. And pointing out one hospital that has an issue is not reflective of the whole NHS. The issues you are moaning about started a long time ago due to underfunding and an inability to recruit and retain staff. Solely baming immigrants as the entire cause of NHS is just ignorance. The population is aging and there are huge shortages in social care for the elderly, that is also a massive contributing factor.

[OTheHugeManatee]

Reading this thread, I'm struck by how the general tone on MN discussions of immigration ha changed quite radically since I joined in 2009. Far more critical, far fewer hysterical attacks in critical voices. As MN is quite left-leaning generally I think this represents quite a dramatic change in public opinion over the period.

[AugustaFinkNottle]

21.5% of NHS staff equates to a very large number of people and you have to bear in mind that there is a further percentage of British staff who came into this country as immigrants. You also have to bear in mind that there are significant staff shortages in the NHS, so it's not as if we could replace the 21.5% if they were chucked out tomorrow. If you believe that the NHS could continue without access to immigration you are simply closing your eyes to reality.

[thecatfromjapan]

I think you are finding something to latch your fear of birth on to.
You might want to see about getting professional help with that.

IMHO immigration is part of a wider problem generated by neo- liberalism.

[AugustaFinkNottle]

OP, if your local hospital was in that state it wasn't the fault of immigrants, it was down to poor planning and inadequate funding.

[GooseberryRoolz]

Before this becomes the 50000012th rerun of "Immigration: A wholesale good or a wholesale evil?";

What's interesting about the book, for anyone vaguely interested in politics, is HOW TB pursued his aims and the interviews with senior civil servants.

When I looked up the author, I was expecting indications that he was a male Melanie Phillips, but it seems he is not that.

Of course, the fact that publication has fallen before the Brexit Referendum could prove interesting too.

[lorelei9]

OP
I'm a bit confused at your posts
is this news to you?

I don't mean that rudely. It's just it looks as if uncontrolled EU immigration is an issue for you....you're not the only one but most people who are worried about it knew about the New Labour approach when it first hit the headlines several years ago....

[EatenEasterChocsAlready]

Chipped its widely known and is now all there in black and white and blown wide open, that Blair and his crew deliberately obfuscated over immigration numbers.

Are you suggesting that the only way we can recruit staff is by having a totally open door policy to the whole of Europe!

In Slough there was a huge influx and yet the official counts to the council showed numbers decreasing! This meant the budget was woefully short. This meant the budget for services was dangerously short.

There was no system of counting people entering the country.

If you do not have such a system how can you make sure you have the right staff numbers, maternity beds, school places, etc in place to cope?

www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200708/ldselect/ldeconaf/82/7121107.htm

1. What is different in the current waves of migration to those gone past is not so much in scale and speed of migration (although this has been unprecedented since EU expansion in 2004) but in the failure of statistics to keep pace and reaction of central government to the management of the impacts resulting from migration.
   

6. "The fact remains that Slough has a successful history of accepting large numbers and great varieties of people from other places. Past experience has demonstrated Slough's ability to assimilate newcomers without severe or lasting difficulties, and in virtually all cases the newcomers have added something of genuine value to the life of the town. Perhaps it is not too unrealistic to think this could happen once more ..." William H. Israel, Council Officer reporting on migration in 1964.

7. The difference between today and 1964 is that the impacts were taken seriously by the government and the reaction to alleviate them was collegiate, swift and effective

1. Poor measurement of local populations in "hyper-diverse" communities has serious consequences to the management of migration at a local level. The failure to track migration accurately to and within the UK results in inaccurate population estimates with corollary under-funding for those areas where official statistics prove inadequate. This in turn results in pressures to all services, community cohesion risks and poor central and local planning of services. The council has published incontrovertible evidence of a population undercount in the town due to the inability of official statistics to measure current migration movement accurately (see Appendix A).
   

Its a very interesting snap shot of one councils battle to keep going under the Blair government.

The stark difference between reality and lack of official head counts.

[80sMum]

I think the OP has a point.

It is an indisputable fact that public services in the UK, in particular the NHS cannot cope with the numbers of people trying to access them. This must surely be due in no small part to the unprecedented rapid growth in population, due mostly to immigration.

Every week one sees reports of hospitals closing A&E departments because they are full, of ambulances queuing outside hospitals, of people not being able to get a GP appointment until 3 weeks hence, of long waiting times, cancelled operations etc etc etc. And yet there is no limit on how many more people will be allowed to settle here.
I do think that the NHS is in danger of collapse and that worries me greatly.
I have always been pro European but now even I am beginning to think the unthinkable, ie should we seriously consider leaving the EU. I never thought I would ever think that, but something has to happen to control the size of the population.

[EatenEasterChocsAlready]

lorelei9

NO!! Its not news to me! I have lived and breathed the effects of too much immigration especially when I had my first child!

But there were rumours, did Blair really want to rub the rights nose in it? Did Blair really want to flood the country with people to vote for him...

It was all vague.

This is all laid bare now, all clear in a book that has pulled it all together.

[lorelei9]

Oh
I didn't think it was vague, there were articles by meeting insiders yonks ago

Never mind, as you were!

At least there's a vote coming up. About ten years too late of course....but I guess it's better than nothing.

[lorelei9]

80smum, your post gives me hope.

All this building,,,,yes. Something needs to be dine about population but I'm afraid I include everyone in that. I don't think controlling EU immigration is enough to control population.

[papayasareyum]

some of the "no borders, pro immigration, let everyone in" mentality on Mumsnet is bizarre and it's as if they're in a perpetual state of self denial that there might be very logical and sensible reasons for stricter border controls. Ostrich mentality doesn't eradicate the problem, just allows it to be ignored temporarily. Thankfully, more and more people are realising the folly of this open borders mentality and even my most left wing friends are adopting a more pragmatic, moderate mindset. In keeping with the changed attitude here on Mumsnet.