To think that seeing Galloway, Farage and Johnson in the same camp makes it obvious which way to vote.

[DreamingofSummer]

We don't need four months of campaigning to see that.

I know Misit and I love it and have visited morocco a few times.

But this group of men are causing massive problems.

You may think Morocco is a country worth fleeing from but Germany now,doesn't. believe the initial intention was to help people fleeing form Syria.

You may also joke about locking up your daughters, but people in germany are being told to do just that. To walk a new way home from school, to wear more modest clothing etc etc etc.

"gmar Gabriel, the vice chancellor, announced that Germany would place Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia on a list of “safe countries of origin” – meaning that migrants from those countries would have little chance of winning asylum."
Some migrants would also be blocked from bringing their families to join them in Germany for two years, Gabriel said.

The tougher rules come after Germany, the European Union’s powerhouse economy, took in some 1.1 million migrants in 2015 – many of them refugees fleeing conflict in Syria.

Gruntled

"It obviously isn't about personalities, but the fact that three certified idiots support the out campaign is a bit of a strong hint about its merits."

Exactly my point

"It obviously isn't about personalities, but the fact that three certified idiots support the out campaign is a bit of a strong hint about its merits."

No it isn't - it's of zero significance.

You are just using the fact that three well-known people with unpopular views support something as a gauge of it's merit, based solely on your own opinion on the matter itself - but as countless others have correctly pointed out, there are no doubt at least 3 "certified idiots" (as you so charmingly put it) on your side of the fence too.

op you are bvvu. I really really hope that the outcome of the referendum isnt based on politician popularity votes. We need to vote on what we think would be in the best interests of the UK. Politicians come and go but we will have to live with the outcome of the referendum for far longer so we need to be rational about this

There are far more issues involved in all of this than "borders" However this is what everyone seems to be fixated on.

I can remember (being old) what it was like before we joined the EC, you do realise that if we pull out import/export duties will go sky high. Foreign manufacturers based here will move to Spain or Greece for ease of exporting to the Eu countries, jobs will be lost and prices will go up, and it won't stop migration.
I'm not a fan of DC but I think he is right on this one, and Boris et al are just going with the popular view "Keep all the bloody foreigners out" even if the majority of those from the EU countries who come here are employed and self supporting.

I am first and foremost a European and secondly an English woman.

you do realise that if we pull out import/export duties will go sky high. So all the Citroens, BMWs, Audis VWs, SEATs we buy will be much much more expensive?

We buy loads from Europe - why would they price themselves out of the market?

I can (just) remember pre-EC times - and exports and imports weren't unknown then. In fact in those days we used to be rather keener to make our own stuff for home use.

YANBU. For me it's Gove and Grayling - they have such bad judgement that if they both think something is a good idea then it must be lunacy. QED.

I can't stand those men and I am pro EU and hope so much to stay in but yabu really op, that's not a good thing to base your decision on. Cameron and Osborne are in the yes camp and I fecking hate and despise them but i don't think "hmm if that pair of twats are pro eu then it must be a bad thing".

I am dreading the next few months. I'm glad we no longer live in Fenland. My EU national dh got so much shit from the resident kippers when we did, I can only begin to imagine the level of hatred that will be in the air there now.

Both the Leave and Remain camps comprise members of various political hues, and all sorts of personalities. Do your research into the facts before deciding, OP. Don't worry about politicians' sound bites, or how good their image-makers are.

even if the majority of those from the EU countries who come here are employed and self supporting.

That's an analysis that ignores the effects of uncontrolled immigration from countries with much lower living costs - and that's before the effects on health, education, transport, housing and the downward pressure on wages are considered. It's an easy way to try and shut down concerns about these very real issues to say it's just going with the popular view "Keep all the bloody foreigners out" but you are being unfair to people who have real concerns on these issues.

The argument can ne too easily turned around: Cameron and Tony Blair are for an EU future.

YABU. This is a hugely important matter and should be seen as such. Focusing on a couple of politicians or personalities that you deem 'idiots' only makes you look like the idiot...

*Mymoneyisallspent"

Well that's me told!!

The personalities, styles and credibility of those putting forward arguments is crucial to any debate or judgement. It's why we have juries in trials rather than relying only on written evidence.

George Galloway and Nigel Farage have credibilty that's so low it's subterranean. Boris Johnson is simply running for leader of the Conservative Party. Taken together they greatly damage any argument for exit

The thing is, though, that these three are the tip of the iceberg. Look at the likes of Grayling and Gove, for instance. Look at the fact that the Daily Express, FGS, loudly supports the Leave campaign. QED.

Sounds like your mind is made up. But seriously there are so many untrustworthies lined up on the other side too it is a daft argument.

there's nothing to stop us joining a reorganised EU in the future if it's in our interests to do so, is there?

I think it's important to remember this is a decision forever, not for five years. Do we think the EU would have us back? I don't, they didn't let us in originally anyway as De Gaulle kept us out. Remember Cameron pleading with the Scots not to vote for independence just to give the f*ing Tories a bloody nose? This is the same. Whatever decision we make this year, that's it. No second chances.

we are welcoming hundreds of young men into our society who come from totally different cultures some of which have very little respect for women.

nothing at all to do with the EU. Everything to do with the aftermath of Empire and letting in lots of people from areas of Asia/Africa who believe women have no rights.

I am thoroughly bored of the whole thing already, and we've another 4 months to go

Yes. I am going to be bored with it by the end of today as well. Thank goodness it is June 2016 and not 2017...

It could also be argued that it might be instructive to think back in time to who was for a wider European integration: Napoleon, Hitler..

Or Darts Sidious

Darth

Exactly..

If I can find out how Piers Morgan would vote I will do the opposite!