to think that up to 5,000 Isil-trained jihadists in the EU is SOMEWHAT worrying?

[HaveIGotAClue]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/12165093/Up-to-5000-Isil-trained-jihadists-could-be-at-large-in-Europe.html?sf21193208=1

As an Irishwoman - I feel compelled to say, that....... at least a bomb warning was usually given. ISIS is a WHOLE 'NOTHER kettle o' fish.

I knew someone would trot out how fluffy terrorism was back in the day.

Those slaughtered in the Kingsmill, Greysteel, Loughlinisland massacres didn't get much warning did they?

Also, a warning isn't much good when there's another bomb planted on the route people would flee down (as happened in Warrington and many other occasions).

Victims of proxy bombs didn't get much warning either.

And before you say anything about suicide bombers 1)It's no less psychopathic to plant a bomb and walk away. 2) Any one in NI who was blown up by their own bomb was treated as a martyred hero by their terror org, so what's the difference?

I'm not worried at all. The job of such headlines is to put fear up your arse, so job done. But when you think about it, 5000 seems a made up figure, and even if true it's a tiny proportion of the population.

I don't believe this millions of supporters under the Isis iceberg either.

Maybe if we stopped interfering and bombing other countries, those people wouldn't get so angry with us.

I'd argue that groups like ISis kill as many Muslims as anyone else.

What we need is a world free of religion bollocks.

It's a massive mess anyway, because Syria is imploding, as are other parts of the most volatile region of the world which contains a large portion of the world's oil, and in which the UK has been very heavily involved for over a century - for our own self-interest, not some fluffy liberal niceness (far from it).

This is not in some convenient box that can be walled off and will leave us alone if we don't want to play. See 9/11 and the London bombings. And it certainly ain't in Angela Merkel's gift to make it stop.

Fools! We have millions of people in our gyms and parks training for the apocalypse.. I can even get footage of this first hand

zippey - they didn't learn after 800 years in Ireland.

Can I qualify all this by saying that I have no gripe with history, one that I had no part in.

But can I also qualify this by saying that the IRA fought for Irish freedom. Rightly or wrongly. They did not attempt to invade, conquer, quell, denigrate, nor otherwise take on territory which was not theirs. That has been the indulgence of the British Crown over centuries.

A deal was made, which divided the Irish nation. DeValera sold us out to Britain by sending Collins on an effectively suicide mission.

Don't try to compare the IRA with ISIS. Or I will feel duty bound to share videos of Bloody Sunday etc.

The terror was not just in Britain. It was in Dublin too - my aunt had left work early to go on a date and narrowly escaped the Talbot Street bombing.

The RUC killed, maimed, murdered and tortured many many Irish people.

We're at peace now. Please don't pick a scab on a recently healed wound.

OP - you brought up how nice and fluffy the IRA were, sorry I had to counter that with facts, facts which included massacres carried out by Loyalists terrorists too.

Feel free to post Bloody Sunday videos. It will illustrate the futility of taking a hardline stance against an entire community to combat terrorism.

And ISIS are fighting for their beliefs - and killing people whilst they do. Where's the difference? Are the IRAs victims less dead? Did Tim Parry or Jonathan Bell or Bernadette McCool deserve it more?

Here's a bit of fiction:

Do you think that as an Irish person we don't know persecution? Do you think however, that we have learned that peace and negotiation are the only tools left?

Do you think there is any negotiation to be had with ISIS?

exLtEveDallas do you think the victims of the RUC killings and torture are unscarred and alive and kicking?

Never said they were (although I don't remember the RUC planting bombs and killing innocents). The IRA/UVF/INLA et al were/are no better than ISIS. They still bombed innocent people to make their voice heard.

"Did Tim Parry or Jonathan Bell or Bernadette McCool deserve it more?"

I think it depends if someone wrote a song about them or not.

Pausing - You are quite right. A country at the edge of Europe with a population of 20million has imploded. It is ludicrous to expect that it won't have any impact on Europe.

I see a nice reasoned debate has ensued.
NI is ancient history. There is no point comparing it to the current situation.

In my view - the threat is real indeed. I don't know what the answer is.

At least the IRA had an objective. I've no idea what IsIS or the other multitude of fanatic Muslim groups want from us. I don't understand the kind of society these extremists want to live in.

The differnce with ISIS and the IRA is that the IRA wanted the Crown to get the fuck out of messing with our country and exploiting it.

ISIS have a clear agenda similar to the British Crown - they want to invade and conquer, not just to defend themselves. But they do it in the name of a God. And that is very powerful to the emotionally vulnerable.

Google the CONTEST strategy. IMO it's the biggest pan government campaign ever and it puts the responsibility for this sort of thing in the court of every organisation in the UK. Stirring stuff, the authorities are working hard, this is a new type of terrorism and we all need to think about how we can contribute to the strategy.

I think your argument is a touch misguided in its comparison of the British Crown and Isis.

Mrsmorton - the UK is trying to wash its hands of the shite they have caused (Blair - I'm glaring at you) in the ME.

"I don't remember the RUC planting bombs and killing innocents"

I think there was implication of some RUC personnel belonging or being fellow travellers with Loyalist terrorist groups and passing along information or getting rid of evidence after crimes. There was a weapon on display somewhere recently that had been magicked away from some crime in NI. It had gone missing, but turned up on display somewhere. I can't remember exactly where. I thought there was something recently in connection the murders of solicitors Rosemary Nelson and Pat Finucane and RUC or army tip offs to the murderers. Collusion, in short. I don't know if that was blocked or is going ahead. At that time the overwhelming recruits came from Unionist/Loyalist backgrounds, so they may not have had the confidence of the whole community as being non-partisan. The police force representation is still unbalanced. I think there were attempts to make it more representative, but think positive discrimination efforts were abandoned. I could be wrong on that, though. I think demographics in the general population are near parity, now, but still not in PSNI.

Don't understand your point tbh OP. Can you expand?

Fwiw, I think a strategy that mobilises lollipop ladies as well as MI6 has got to be a good thing.

We used to use the 'Bikini' alert state - the lowest level of which was white (meaning stable or reasonable safety). The UKs threat state was last as low as white in 1970. Since then it has been 'Black Special' (potential terrorist attack) or higher for as long as I can remember, and even after the Good Friday agreement NI was on Amber (likely terrorist attack).

We moved to Low/Moderate/Heightened/Substantial/Severe and Critical in 2000 (I think). We have been between Substantial and Severe ever since (Severe for the last couple of years)

The Telegraph is telling us nothing new. We should all be alert at all times, but we are in no 'extra' danger than we were before. The world is in shit state, but I am no more scared of ISIS than I am of the Provisonal or Continuity IRA. They are both willing and able to kill for their own ends.

Arguing which sort of terrorism is "worse" is a bit insensitive to the victims, no? Victims of Irish terrorism are just as dead as those killed in Paris.

There is no way to put a positive spin on killing people in the name of religion or nationalism - two things ISIS have in common with many home-grown European terror organisations.

When have you heard of the prosecution of a PIRA or CIRA person?

Mistigri

Victims of British terrorism are just as dead as those killed in Paris.

HaveI you can't use oppression as an excuse for terrorism. I can (in certain circumstances) accept that one person's "terrorist" is another person's "freedom fighter", but not if they target civilians and the unarmed.