AIBU to think that 4yo DD is a pain in the arse??

[BusyHomemaker]

I love her to bits, that goes without saying but recently DP and I feel like we are constantly telling her off. She's full-time at nursery and we're out of the house between 7:40am and 5:50pm and it's so infuriating that she's so naughty at home... And an angel at nursery! She's so kind and polite at nursery and with her grandparents but at home she's disrespectful, laughs when we try to discipline her and is insincere when she says sorry.

Neither of us want to fill what little time we spend together by constantly telling off DD and I just don't think it's normal for a child to be so naughty :( It's almost like she just can't help herself... She knows the rules!

Her behaviour has become annoying, frustrating and tedious. She can also be quite manipulatuve, for example, crying as soon as she's asked to do something or pretending she's hurt herself when she's being told off. Are all children like this??

Of course, DD has some absolutely lovely traits and can be incredibly loving. She's intelligent, creative, has a fabulous imagination, takes a keen interest in the world around her and plays nicely with other children. She can be incredibly conscientious and used to hate being told off, avoiding it as much as possible.

Can somebody wise please suggest some tips for how to discipline a bright, witty four year old... Who may have been slightly spoilt at times in the past?!

Ds has being going through a similar phase. I have moved dinner time forward which has helped.

I don't think it's too long for childcare at all. What's important is what happens outside that.

If you're coming in and rushing round trying to make dinner, get changed, tidy up, pack a bag for next day, empty the washer, talk about your day with your dp etc, then yes they will clamour for attention. I used to prep dinner the night before, get dd to 'help' and join in with anything that had to be done, and do the rest once she was in bed. So she got my whole attention when we got home and in the mornings. And we still chat now whilst showering, dressing, serving dinner etc and she's 12.

I'm sure you are not doing anything wrong. Four is a hard age. They calm down when they start school. I agree with picking your battles otherwise you'll spend all your time arguing.

There will be an element of holding it all in at nursery. They do that at school too and get better with maturity.

I don't think you need necessarily blame working. I work shifts around the school and both of mine were difficult then and I was usually around.

I don't think giving up work is the answer if it's something you want because you'll end up resenting it

She does get to spend a day each week at home with DP, who's amazwoth her but she can be quite naughty with him when we're both at home. DP is not DD's biological father and she hasn't seen her real Dad in ages. I do understand that's a lot to deal with for any child, let alone a sensitive four year old. Also my dad takes DD swimming one afternoon each week, so she's only at nursery 3.5 days. I think it's the time spent away from me that is bothering her (bothering us both, tbh!) She's exhausted once we get home but I guess I have been trying to catch up with jobs I steadily of cuddling her on the sofa. I can at least make some positive changes there! It's the rudeness directed to DP that we'd both finding so hard to manage, plus it's quite hurtful to be on the receiving end.

I think lurked suggestions for making the time after work, before her bedtime and then in the morning focused on her will help a lot.

Must be hard on you both going from being together all the time to not seeing that much of each other. I miss my wee one and feel guilty, and we know no different. It must be tough for you both

Oops, forgive the typos- I'm on my phone!

Yes, I agree with PP's that tiredness is a big factor. Weekends are quite full so she's up and down with tiredness/moods! Perhaps we need to just spend Sunday afternoons at home relaxing and have family time. How do others structure your weekends? Do you get much down time as a family?

My DD who has only just turned 5 has started playing up. She is at school and both me and her teacher have said it's very out of character. She genuinely doesn't give a damn about punishments or being told off, except when I really bellow at her, which I hate doing and usually is the result of a long and tedious evening of not listening and playing up. I like the pebble idea, may pinch that. I find my DD responds better to positive reinforcement, a chart earning stickers, something like that. He teacher has been doing this rather than putting her on warnings and it has really helped in school. I also think part of it for mine is the fact that she is now at school whereas she spent a lot of time with me before as I am a SAHM and she only went to nursery part time.

I'm guessing it could be that your DD is trying for your negative attention given that she doesn't see you very much. But it's quite clear your career is important.

We have nothing planned for 95% of weekends if possible. Certainly no formal activities. 5 year old DD often wants to spend both days indoors in her PJs.

I think the rudeness has to have consequences however you also need to make sure the time you have together in the evening is good quality time with her - even if this means sitting with her while she watches cbeebies (sorry )

My guess is she is missing you and this is coming out as naughtiness, she may resent your dp slightly as sees him as competition for your attention.

Re consequences you need to find something that works but is fair, at that age I found time out completely pointless. My dd responded to having a favourite toy confiscated or not having any tv time for one evening.

We don't have any structured activities at weekends. All out of school, activities are done on week day evenings. I said a long time ago I don't want weekends taken up. Weekend morning are quite lazy, no rush to get ready, plenty of time for DCs to chill, watch TV and play. We always makes sure they have plenty of time to be at home and do what they want to do. Weekdays are more rushed with school, homework and activities so I want to make sure they have time to just be children at weekends. Do think that these days parents do too much structured stuff and too many 'we have to be out doing things' when children probably want to play with their toys and chill out more (not a dig at you be OP, but I see it a lot with many parents I know).

I went through a similar thing when my DD started school at 4.5. She goes to the childminder till 6 and is there some mornings at 7.30am so I get her at the end of he day when she is pretty past it. I found I had to relax some of the rules for a while and go with the flow rather than insist on all the usual things I might focus on with her in terms of behaviour. After a period when I got very frustrated with her i read that this type of thing is common and it made me feel I like I wasn't doing something wrong or that I should feel guilty for the childcare situation. I did find lots of cuddles and affection really helped the situation and helped us bond together so that even if she was tired we at least connected. Sometimes I would just grab her and hug it out of her! I also praised and rewarded her a lot more when she was better. It lasted about 4 months and now things are much better. Towards the half term she gets teary as she is ready for the holiday and I know to expect it now and just get her to bed really quick as tiredness was also at root of a lot if it. Good luck

Mine is 10 now but I remember the last few months of nursery before school as a very trying time. Big fish small pond.

If they are doing getting ready for school type things at nursery that may be unsettling combined with the change with you working.

I bet things will settle down.

We try to have pretty flexible weekends with nothing specific planned and where we spend the time together just the 3 of us. We either all go out somewhere fun, spot of lunch, run some errands or we all hang out at home, in our pjs watch some movies and play games.

I agree the rudeness needs some form of punishment. For us though we go along the lines of consequences rather than punishment. So if she's rude to us, we would take her to one side, sit with her and explain that what she said wasn't nice, explain why and ask her what she could do to make things better. Usually she decides she needs to give whoever she was rude to a cuddle. And then she goes off to do that. She's nearly 4.

I don't think there is anything wrong with your childcare arrangements so don't feel bad about that and I am sure she is getting lots of your attention - it really upsets me that people can't just offer advice without trying to make you feel bad. Yes, perhaps it would be good to dedicate a bit of 1 on 1 time with her but I bet most of us are guilty of struggling to balance jobs (in a workplace or household ones) and quality time!
4 wasn't a particularly bad age for my son (haven't hit that with my daughter yet) but both him and my daughter went through the terrible twos with gusto! And yes, they were both pains in the arse at times! I was a bit more clued up second time round but first time I couldn't understand what had happened to my easy going son and we used to constantly clash, it was so upsetting. I think you just have to grit your teeth and have faith that like with any other stage of parenting, it will get easier eventually. I'm not one for not telling a child off when they misbehave but we did find being more positive helped particularly with our daughter, so saying 'I know you can be a good girl, you usually are, please could you help me and get ready quickly' as a first response
Oh and I am a firm believer that, how your child behaves around other people is the best indicator of how good a job you are doing - they will always play up for their parents but if they are polite and well behaved at nursery/school etc then you are doing something very right, you have taught them respect. Hope it goes better soon for you x

Our weekends are left fairly unstructured. We get up really late. Plenty of tv and slobbing about. I take DD for a good long trip to the park. We might go out for lunch on Sunday. It's a much slower pace than the week and everyone needs this.

Ignore the nursery jibes. Day care (or at least the one my boy goes to) isnt the same as school or preschool. There is structure and rhythm to the day to allow some down time and more relaxed play or quiet, self selected, activities. My DS is tired by the end of the day with us or after nursery. Sometimes telly and a cuddle on the sofa is the best route for us.

I'm a SAHM* and my little one comes out if school in a terrible mood every day. It's like she saves it all up for lucky me! What I've found to work is having a cuddly quiet time together when she gets in- no probing from me about her day (learned that the hard way!), maybe a bit of singing or reading books together. I also call her out on her behaviour, maybe saying that it's a pity to waste our special time together being grumpy. But I don't think it's the right time for firm discipline. Appealing to her imagination helps too- she likes pretending to be a fairy at the moment and playing along with the fantasy smooths everything along. All of that is embedded in a strong routine which helps too.

My older child was more of an introvert and benefitted hugely from a quarter hour with his trains or Lego to decompress before we could even manage a cuddle or a story!

*so quitting your job might not solve this one

It's really really tempting to do all jobs when you come in and plonk dc at the table or infront of tv - I know iv done it.many times. U need to get dinner, empty dishwasher, clean up ect. I'm making a huge effort to do nothing but eat with dc then play a board game. Some nights I do some nights I slip back

I think you're probably seeing her at her very worst - tired, adjusting to being at home, low blood sugar, then more tired. You need to be careful that the bits of the day you're spending with her aren't giving you a more negative picture of what she's like than would be accurate otherwise. I think a parent who is at home all day has mentally tuned out by about 5pm because that's when the bad behaviour tends to come out. If you were at home all day, I doubt you'd make an issue of it because there would be lots of better examples to set against it.

I can kind of understand her playing up a bit though. If I was four, I might feel like 'Who do you think you are to swan in at tea time and expect me to dance to your tune all of a sudden?'. Especially if I was fed up with being the good girl at nursery

Just saw your post about the rudeness - I have exactly the same thing at the same age and same gender. It's a four going on forty thing! They're just getting good with their words and trying stuff out to see how they sound. I was told I would be exchanged for a new mummy the other day. Hurtful but it wasn't a real insult, if you know what I mean!

My son is the same.

First hour home from daycare often includes throwing himself on the floor in a tantrum, squirming to bet away, won't take coat off etc. He's two. So doesn't really talk back but says 'no' lots.

After being fed, watered and relaxing for an hour he seems to chill : just like normal people really!

Remember she has had a long hard day too, I know it's only nursery etc but its still a lot for her, mentally and physically.

Is she good at the weekends?

Wow that's a long day maybe she is tired - a school teacher once said to me 'if they can't let off steam at home where can they' better her bein this way with u than an angel at home and a pest at nursery

I don't understand why you're asking for advice about disciplining your dd. You have decided that it's a discipline issue but I think you're wrong. Like many pp have said, she's seeking attention. Don't respond to that by framing it as if she needs to be disciplined.

You should be asking for strategies on how to give her attention as a working mum - you will get loads of ideas. Lots of mums on here work long hours and will share strategies. Maybe don't call your dd a PITA, not even tongue-in-cheek, over something quite serious causing her unhappiness

Yes to tired, yes to reacting to changes in her world, whilst nursery/childcare seemed fun and exciting the sheen has worn off a tad. Hungry, a big cause of bad behaviour here.

Maybe as you come in the door together a new routine of reading a chapter of a book together, then can chat about book, where it's going etc as you make tea/eat etc. Put off doing that washing, putting out things and give her 15mins of quiet together time.

And just hang in there, it's the age - forget terrible twos, we have the F&&*$^ fours (muttered under breath out of earshot of course!).

I can spot a 4yr old miles away, it is not a pleasant age/stage. they try things that are cute when done by a 2yr old. 5 is much better, hang in there.