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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be pissed off with my tenants changing plugs on my appliances

253 replies

ReallyTired · 15/02/2016 08:05

They aren't electricians. Am I legally responsible for their stupidity if they electrocute themselves? (Gawd forbid!) They did not contact me about any maintained problem.

If there is a problem with an electrical appliance I would rather they told me so I can get someone with half a brain to fix. I have a condensing tumble dryer in the flat. They moved out the dryer and complained it has water in it. Duh! It's a condensing tumble dryer and you are expected to empty the bottle. There are instructions about all appliances. For some stupid reason they decided to change to plug and now they have tripped the electrics.

OP posts:
Cheby · 15/02/2016 11:05

But WHY did they change the plug on the bloody thing? Why would that fix a broken tumble dryer? Aren't all plugs moulded plastic these days? So they would have had to cut that off to chance the plug? Sounds very random to me. Of all the things to fail on a tumble dryer I would have thought the plug would have been one of the last.

Marynary · 15/02/2016 11:08

Why would you take a machine apart to clean it? The manufacturer supplies nice manuals with cleaning instructions. You can find copies on line, really easily. Condenser dryers are easy to clean, once you have looked at the pretty pictures

If it gets really clogged up it's not that easy. e.g. it may involve, unscrew the back panel, cleaning the vent pipe, pump etc. It's more complicated than changing a plug IMO.

specialsubject · 15/02/2016 11:16

haven't read every single post, but the problem is the usual one of being too entitled to read the manual. The dryer needed the water container emptying.

I've had tenants complaining about a dryer that didn't work - yes, that's because you didn't clean out the fluff so the overheat switch on the back tripped.

put stickers on the front of any appliances you supply stating the bleeding obvious. Or do as I have learnt and don't supply any. People can become surprisingly intelligent when stuff is their own.

hefzi · 15/02/2016 11:18

I was talked through changing a plug by a security guard at Asda - I'm early 40s and we weren't taught to do it at school Surely, though, the tenants would have only resorted to changing a plug - moulded or not - because the electrics kept tripping in the first place? After all, it's hardly a first line of action to attack a plug if there's not an issue on the circuit board... And after 2 years, I would have thought they would already have worked out that a condenser needs emptying: that or they must barely have used to tumble dryer!

Smidge001 · 15/02/2016 11:21

cheby they probably thought the fuse had blown. In the good old days, when everyone knew how to change a plug and change a fuse, that was the usual cause of a faulty appliance, and often easily remedied. (As long as there wasn't an underlying issue). With moulded plugs it's not always possible to change the fuse (they want to prevent people putting in a higher fuse (eg 13 amp instead of 5 amp)). Maybe the tenants thought cutting off the moulded plug and replacing it with one where they knew the fuse was good would be sensible.

I change plugs all the time. We were taught at middle school in science (though I knew already having been taught at home) so clearly it's a job most people thought was fine for a 8-11 year old to carry out Grin

If they've caused related electrical issues though, I'd have no qualms charging that back to them. Though I doubt it was changing the plug that caused the problem. (Unless they weren't paying attention in science!)

kirinm · 15/02/2016 11:30

Ah the tone landlords use when discussing their tenants. Putting up their rent because it's easier than getting it from the deposit - that'll be because you'll have to negotiate there and it might not be found to be reasonable.

whatevva · 15/02/2016 11:32

Our creda tumble dryer started to cut out when it was just over 10 years old. The fluff had got into the motor causing it to burn and short out the motor. It was not housed under anything and was vacuumed and moved regularly.

We got rid of it and got a new Bosch one, as it was dangerous.

The Bosch one is about 15 now and I will be looking to replace it soon, before it sets the house on fire. They do not last for ever.

kirinm · 15/02/2016 11:36

It may not be social housing but they're paying your mortgage.

Mistigri · 15/02/2016 11:39

I don't really understand why a tenant would change a plug in this situation, but regardless I wouldn't want to be the landlord of tenants who did this, as if you supply the appliances then you are surely responsible making sure they meet safety standards.

I think I would simply not provide appliances at all, although if you have agreed to do so in your contract, then perhaps replace the dryer and give the tenants notice in writing that any alternations or repairs done without your permission will incur a charge (as they would invalidate the guarantee and require safety checking).

OurBlanche · 15/02/2016 11:44

Yes kirinm. And supplying you a home in exchange.

Did you not read the OPs later post? The one where she acknowledged that her first post probably was unreasonable, but she was angry at the time, having only just heard about it.

See, a landlord admitting they were unreasonable. Can you do the same regarding your unreasoning anti LL posts?

ItWillWash · 15/02/2016 11:47

Changing a light fitting isn't much harder than changing a plug as long as you're changing like for like, it's just a matter of unscrewing the old one, disconnecting the wires and fitting the new one.

I wouldn't rewire a light fitting on my own, although I could, technically do that myself, it would involve punching holes in the ceiling, I don't think the LL would be impressed with me if I did that without asking first.

ElderlyKoreanLady · 15/02/2016 11:49

kirinm that's exactly the point I wanted to make but I couldn't figure out how to word it!

If OP is certain that the tenants have done something to damage this 10 year old appliance beyond repair, taking the value of that appliance out of their deposit is the proper way of dealing with it, not upping their rent! It does seem as though OP is choosing this method to avoid having to establish that the tenants are actually at fault.

Original poster
ReallyTired · 15/02/2016 11:50

Renting a property is a business and yes that does mean the occassional rent increase. Rents in my area have soared in the last two years. Its not unusual to increase the rent after two years. I had my previous tenants for seven years so I can't be that bad a landlady. In my other flat I own I had a tenant for four years. He is returning to his own country and is not unhappy with me.

I am annoyed with my tenants for lack of communication. OK the tumble dryer does not work. Let me as the landlord decide how best to fix the problem. I have ordered my tenants a new tumble dryer. I feel this is the most economical option.

Incidently the electrics were checked in 2015. There is no legal requirement to PAT test appliances annually unless its a multiple occupancy propety.

OP posts:
OurBlanche · 15/02/2016 11:51

No, Elderly. She isn't certain of that at all. She said as much in a later post.

RTFT, maybe!

OurBlanche · 15/02/2016 11:53

Quite right, ReallyTired. Yearly PATs are a thing electricians try to tell you are obligatory in all rentals. They are not. Most LL information packs state something like:

A visual examination is the most important factor, but if an item were to short and then catch fire then being able to prove that it had been PAT checked recently (every two years for smaller items and four years for larger ones) would help matters.

ElderlyKoreanLady · 15/02/2016 11:59

I did Blanche. And from what I could see, there was no acknowledgement from the OP that increasing rent to cover damages, rather than deducting from the deposit that is held for that purpose, is underhanded.

OurBlanche · 15/02/2016 12:04

It's a business, not social housing. I am within my rights to ask for a rent increase irrespective of the tenants being daft. I probably will have calmed down by the time I decide how much to put the rent up by. It's a bad idea to decide on rent increases when you are annoyed with a tenant .

Page 3...

Marynary · 15/02/2016 12:09

Renting a property is a business and yes that does mean the occassional rent increase. Rents in my area have soared in the last two years. Its not unusual to increase the rent after two years.

If they have been tenants for over 2 years how can you possibly think they didn't know to change the bottle and that the problem is due to that? Did they actually tell you that? It very probably wasn't working before they changed the plug and that is why they changed it.
Considering that your idea of "fixing the problem" is to not investigate but just to replace the tumbler dryer and increase their rent I'm not altogether surprised that didn't communicate with you about it initially.

ElderlyKoreanLady · 15/02/2016 12:10

That doesn't say that she acknowledges damages should be recovered against the deposit Hmm just that she's annoyed at the tenant and probably won't increase the rent by as much once she's calmer.

OurBlanche · 15/02/2016 12:11

OK, we read the intent behind it differently.

Original poster
ReallyTired · 15/02/2016 12:17

Rents in my area have increased at a ridicolous rate. If I was really ruthless and evil I could probably put the rent up by £200 and still be able to find a tenant. However such a rent increase would be immoral.

"OP that increasing rent to cover damages, rather than deducting from the deposit that is held for that purpose, is underhanded."

It happens in every business, that people put up charges to cover costs. Its not underhand, its commerical reality. My property will still be well below market value and my tenants are not forced to accept the rent increase. They can choose to move if they can find cheaper accomodiation. If I was marketing the flat then I would be asking for the market price. (Ie, £200 extra)

I would have no claim on the deposit for a ten year old tumble dryer. A desposit protection company would regard the tumble dryer has having no value after 5 years. A deposit is for malicous behaviour or failing to pay the rent. Its not for basic maintaince or wear and tear.

OP posts:
Original poster
ReallyTired · 15/02/2016 12:19

Accountany fees have increased, the gas safety man wants more money, the service charges have increased. Is it unfair to pass such charges on the tenant in the form of a small rent increase?

I got until June to calm down before I decide what to set the rent at.

OP posts:
OurBlanche · 15/02/2016 12:19

A desposit protection company would regard the tumble dryer has having no value after 5 years. Again quite right. I, as an Inv Clerk, would have noted its apparent age on an ingoing inventory and at check out marked any damage as 'at LLs cost due to age'.

It isn't rocket science, is it?

kirinm · 15/02/2016 12:26

I resent the tone used to address tenants. The 'they can move' attitude is pretty disgusting given that it costs an absolute fortune to move. I'm lucky as I get on well with my landlord despite you fact we've had locks changed whilst we've been out and the entire newly fitter floor having to be replaced with us having to move to accommodate it.

In exchange for a home... that you can't touch for fear of a rental increase or an argument over your deposit.

I've had two bad experiences with landlords. One when the old boiler broke and needed replacing which we were told was our fault for using the heating too much and the other where we had a break clause inserted in our tenancy agreement the day before we moved with assurances they wouldn't be selling only to be told the day the break clause kicked in that they were selling and we needed to move.

I hope the OP doesn't increase the rent once she's calmed down.

madamginger · 15/02/2016 12:28

I'm 36 years old, have lived in my own place since I was 18 years old and have never rewired a plug in my life. I have changed a fuse mind you.