'I'm only not paying my bills because employers aren't paying me'

[Lanark2]

Am I being unreasonable to think 'why should I pay my bills to you, the employers of the world, when you aren't paying the employees of the world enough to pay their bills?

Its gets me so annoyed..the ONLY reason I am not paying my bills is because I don't have enough money. The reason I don't have enough money is I'm not paid enough, the reason I'm not paid enough is because we all used to borrow.. BECAUSE WE WERENT PAID ENOUGH .. And the only reasons employers could pay not enough was because we have been trained not to argue, with them, then borrow... Now it's all not working (again) why should I pay my bills...

Can't I just forward them to my crappy employers??

Silly.. The mortgage is lower than the social housing rent..

yes, but you have capital stored there.

Sorry I don't believe your work 3 jobs and can't pay basic bills.

You can go to prison for not paying council tax. That should be far higher, on your list of priorities.

Why are you being so goady?

I'm not! Its just I can't agree with you!

Don't be so utterly ridiculous.

That is all I have to say (you can afford the internet I see).

If you want to deal with the debt there are loads of places to go for help, like Stepchange.

OP owns her place. I suggest letting out a part of it if that is possible.

Other than revolution, what's the answer though?

Your list of priorities is interesting though, from the POV of your OP. Gas and electricity companies are infamous for high bills due to high costs but miraculously high profits. If you're choosing to boycott payment to certain companies on the grounds that they care more about profit than people then they would be top of my list.

But you need/want electricity, so you'll place that as a higher priority than your credit cards. Which makes me think that it's not about the injustice of capitalism, but that you just don't want to pay for things if you can get away with it.

People really don't get how badly broken the current system in the UK is. 'Austerity' is driven by a badly thought out ideology and there are hardly any economists who support it. When the majority of people have little or no money and little or no chance of getting any more (because so many jobs are poorly paid, zero-hours contracts, no security etc) then they don't spend any money, so those who have things to sell can't sell them, more companies go under, more people have less money.

OP: get involved with the campaigns for Basic Income, which really is the only solution to the current mess. The way to fix poverty is to give poor people more money. Whether they undertake waged work or not. There is no inherent value in waged work: many jobs are pointless or even harmful.

Oh, I wanted to find a way to agree with you, on the principle that the ratio of pay to profits has shifted so dramatically in the favour of the wealthy. But then you made that citizenship remark, so I'm out.

I am v. Qualified, and also v. Hardworking and doing three jobs and still not able to afford council tax, rent, travel food and electricity..

Something's wrong here. I'd love to see your income and expenditures. I think it would make interesting reading.

The issue of what is a fair profit margin to make on labour is something that could be discussed ad infinitum.

Yup Lanark, I actually put my money where my mouth is for a living. Like a lot of other people on here.

There is no inherent value in waged work

Really?

Oh yes, and I am on a couple of boards as well. Have been on various boards for the last 20 years of more.
How on earth did I manage that, starting out as a teenage another and all that shit?
Maybe it is because I realised you have to get out there and do something about the world if you want it to change.

Are you advocating that I advocate people not paying their bills until employers pay enough?

I disagree with your point OP that people have been trained to borrow and not argue - that's not true at all. Borrowing is a choice you've made and you've also chosen to use the services you've been billed for. You should pay. It's all about the choices you make.

I'm happy to pay! You don't get it do you, shouting 'you should' at someone who can't is pointless.

Has your income dropped since you took out your mortgage or other change such as separating from a partner?

By definition, mortgage affordability rules mean that you should be able to afford your mortgage, electricity, food and other bills.

You seem to be on a cash meter for electricity - why, when it will be much cheaper to pay by direct debit?

Due to the tax system, you are better off working 3 jobs than just one job paying the same total gross salary. This is due to how national insurance is calculated.

The problem is that your income is not sufficient to cover your costs. That is a problem for many but is not paying bills really the answer? Being paid more and lowering your costs fixes it but it is not easy to do, you can't just get a better paid job. In the same way employers can't just pay employees more, the money has to come from somewhere.

Yup, there is NO inherent value in working for a wage. There are tasks that need to be done, and the people who do them should be properly paid, but this idea that everyone should work as in be an employee, is nonsense. There are not enough tasks to occupy every able-bodied adult and as automation increases, there will be fewer and fewer.
This is why basic income is necessary. If everyone has enough to live on, then they can choose to take on extra tasks for employers, or not - but employers will have to pay employees properly and treat them fairly.

But why should the poorest bear the burden of the system not working.. As I say its not me who is not paying the bills because I am evil or untrustworthy.. I am totally OK about paying bills on time etc, I just don't have enough money to..so its my employers who aren't paying the bills, not me.. So why should I feel bad, or bear the penalty??

Lanark, it's about the economy be less well balanced than it might be. And there isn't one sole group 'bearing the brunt'. There are lots of people who experience difficulties of one kind or another. The solution lies in community building and supporting each other.

I am not saying society is perfect, but on a more personal level it is important to be honest with yourself about what you are trading off in order to have other things. So your overheads might be high because you live in a better area than other people, or nearer to your workplaces than other people. Or perhaps your earning potential is lower than it might be because you took a long maternity break or didn't take up training opportunities or promotions available to you at different times. Some of this is going to be about choices you have made, and if you scrutinise that, you might have a better idea of how to move forwards or how you might organise things differently.

Or even if everyone uses your theory and leaves their profession to work in a boring office job that pays better who will work in retail and all these other low paid job?

Exactly! The answer is not 'get a better paid job' while there are still poorly paid jobs around, because logic dictates that some poor schmuck has to do them.

And there isn't one sole group 'bearing the brunt'.

I would argue that the people living on £2 a day, the children that are sold into sexual slavery, the mothers giving birth in hospitals with no water and indeed the working people in the UK who are using foodbanks are bearing rather more of the brunt than say the CEO of fucking Npower.

Well that's quite a few groups you listed there, cruikshank.

They are all low paid workers. It is low paid workers who bear the brunt. That is one group. The owners of the means of production are a different group. They do not bear any brunt.

I wonder how it changed from 'leaders are people with integrity and skill' to 'leaders are those who agree with each other that they should take as much money out of the business as they can whilst they have the chance'