to think someone should notice a wet child

[StrictlyMumDancing]

Perfectly fine with being told IABU.

DD (5) has issues with day wetting, which we're trying to get looked into and we've been open with the school and asked them for suggestions to help. They are good in that they don't stop her going to the loo, will suggest she goes if she's showing signs of needing it, etc. Our biggest problem with DD is actually getting her to change out of wet clothes, which they're perfectly aware of. Also if she knows she can get away with not changing she won't bother.

But they never seem to notice that she's wet. I'm not even talking a small amount of wet. I'm talking sopping knickers and tights wet.

I know she's wetting that badly at least twice a day sometimes (due to her wearing pads normally so no pad and knickers beginning to dry up when I get her home), and I have no idea how they aren't seeing it let alone smelling it.

I appreciate there are 30+ other kids in the class, they're meant to be teaching and they can't hover over her, but WIBU to raise this as a concern with them?

With the school nurse and the clinic have you asked the school to get her to contact you when she's at the school?

With your Dr's I'd ring up and ask for an emergency appointment I wouldn't wait till the middle of March that's ages away.If you can get her in with your Dr in the next couple of days you could have a refferal to the clinic and have the appointment by the middle of march.

Slightly off-topic, but I'm staggered that you can't get an appointment with a doctor for a month!

If you're in the catchment area for a different GP surgery it might be worth registering with them?

Ok, ignoring all emotional aspects and focusing on practical here: you want the teachers to be able to clearly see that your daughter is wet, preferably from a distance, without her having to leave her desk or 'waddle' as they put it.

Would it be feasible to get a stack of towels, one of which could be laid over her seat every day or as-needed? I'm thinking hand towels, relatively thin, of a colour where you can easily see if they are wet or not. That way the teacher can look down to the edges of the towel; if it is dark then it's wet, if it is light then it's not. If it is wet, it gets removed and put in a bag and replaced with another towel. That would also give you an idea of how many times it occurs per day when she's at school.

Obviously I have no idea how your daughter would react to this; it's entirely possible that she feels embarrassed and would angrily reject it.

Could the next step be that she tells an adult that she's wet? Instead of waiting to be told to change? Or does she not notice or be bothered? I know it's unbelievable to parents sometimes but the range of smells in a classroom, especially in the afternoon, is something you don't notice after a while! Unless they are right next to her. I know it sounds like I'm making excuses for the school but trust me, we would rather sort the child out! It's just sometimes with everything going on stuff gets missed, especially if children are in and out of the classroom doing various things. Is there more than one adult in the class in the afternoon?

Has the problem only recently started? If not, wouldn't you have been to the GP before she started school?

If it is a new issue, book an emergency GP appt.

If it is a long standing problem, take the next appt offered, even if it is mid March, you've waited long enough already, another month won't change anything.

OP, do your local surgery only do advance booking? Many now have a set time when they release same day appointments. Mid March being the next appointment with any doctor, with nothing but cancellations till then, is not acceptable.

Mid march for a 5 year old get back on the phone to the Drs yanbu the school should chsnge her if they notice she is wet do you send clothes in for her ? Tbh i would put her in pull ups till its sorted

The nurse isn't in until the beginning of March so worst case scenario I'll nab her then. GP will not treat this as urgent - they wouldn't even see her for a perforated eardrum last week despite her having ongoing ear issues that she's awaiting surgery for. I've recently moved to them and they're the very vest of an extremely bad bunch believe it or not. When you get to see them they will actually deal with your problems, unlike the other two surgeries in our catchment! I will spend next week phoning for cancellation appts.

Wetting has been an issue on and off. We've actually had this crop up before - the if she gets away with it, she'll revert back into wetting lots. She had a bad time at nursery a couple of years ago until we realised it was only happening on the days after MIL had her, and MIL had been lying and saying she'd been dry. Once she knew MIL wasn't going to let her get away with it, she went back to being mainly dry.

She wont tell anyone she's wet. She will deny being wet even when she's told she's wet. But say 'look DD' she'll go 'oh yeah' and then go change. She does know she's wet. She knows she's wet badly when she needs to remove the pad. She knows that she should change or ask someone, but she wont do either. I'm not blaming the teachers for this at all btw, but she was almost completely dry at Christmas and now its like she needs nappies again because she can get away without going to the loo or changing herself whilst at school.

Strictly I know that there can be physical reasons for a lack of bladder control at any age. However, from what you've described, it sounds like your daughter can exert some control over the process but is choosing, for whatever reason, not to. Have you considered that maybe it's partly a mental issue that needs to be approached as well as a physical one?

The only reason I'm saying it is because I saw the struggles a friend had with her DS and toilet training. He was dry relatively late for our social group and I think that made it into more of an issue for her and it became a sort of ongoing power struggle between them - it's my belief that this is why he took longer. Obviously I don't know your situation and it sounds like you are being very supportive towards your DD, but I wonder if she might view it differently and whether that view could be changed with counseling.

Anyway, I wish you both the best of luck with your situation

My dd1 was very similar. She would also deny being wet and avoid changing.

I am sure her teachers are not deliberately ignoring a wet child. What would be the point in that?

When dd1 was doing this, if she denied being wet and I suspected she was, I would have a quick feel of her bottom to check. Obviously this is not something teachers can do! I am still that my own dd would lie about being wet years later - her teachers are probably the same. They asked if she was wet, she said no, end of discussion as far as teachers are concerned.

I agree with previous posters that classrooms stink (I teach secondary and still....) and are full of hustle and bustle. It could well go unnoticed.

Being a bit cross with the school won't get you anywhere. They are not set up for children with medical needs. They are teachers not nurses. If/when your dd is diagnosed, a medical care plan can be written which may include additional TA time for helping with changing etc. Until then, your dd's teacher's job is actually teaching her not acting as a nursery nurse. A more successful approach might be to come up with a workable routine. Eg, change knickers every playtime.

My dd started taking tolterodine and lots of laxatives (she also became fecally incontinent at one stage which was awful for everyone) when she was in year 1. By year 3 accidents were very rare (maybe four all year?). She is in yr5 now and hasn't had an accident at school or at home for about 12 months. She still takes all the drugs though, and we do notice her bladder becoming a lot more urgent if she misses a dose. We did loads of bladder training too, drinking lots more (although she still resists this).

Good luck coming up with something that works. And remember it could be worse. A friends dd's school used to call her to pick her up form school to change her herself every time she had an accident (up to twice a day!). She couldn't keep her job.

your aware that schools cant ask parents to come in and change their child giraffe ? and if a child has medical needs such as wetting then the school needs to address this as they have a duty of care for the child the school should have a policy for this if not then they are not really doing their job.

lacontessa yes, I've thought that many a time sadly. It does seem more like she's trying to get some sort of rise or attention out of it all. The greatest success we had in keeping her dry was to ignore the issue except to tell her to change if we caught her wet, which when we stopped even discussing wetness she mainly did without our prompting. Partly this feels like she's started wetting this badly because we can't ignore it. But I'm at a loss as to what she needs from us to solve that. I'm going to go down the physical route now just in case, but I do think there is a mental side to this. She's not very good at communicating her feelings or explaining why she does or doesn't do things, which makes it hard to get to the bottom of.

Currently I'm a SAHM so if they wanted me to come in and change her I'd be happy to. But that would involve someone noticing she's sopping wet in the first place. For today her school have said they will check her and tell her to change/have a chat with her as to why she's not changing or telling them if they find she's wet so worst case scenario she'll only be in wet clothes for a couple of hours. Will see where we can go from there for next term. In fact I'd hazard a guess that me showing up to change her would put a stop to most of it barring small accidents, so maybe that's something I could suggest to them.

just so your aware op according to the ERIC guidelines schools expecting parents to come in to assist their wet or soiled child is not generally considered best practice and schools staff should deal with it.

Strictly it is just so difficult when their brains get involved, isn't it. I used to complain during the days of their very simple (albeit arduous) needs but I'd swap them for these more complex ones anyday! DS1 is the same age as your DD and similarly reticient, so I am never quite sure if I'm approaching him in the way best suited to his particular psychological make-up.

You mentioned a DS. How did your DD respond to his arrival? Is it possible that this is all a big plea for attention that's gone a bit too far?

Yanbu however it sounds like your dd is not ready for knickers. Could she not wear a pull-up underneath her knickers with strict instructions to still use the toilet and the pull up is only there in case she has an accident.

Thanks x2

LaContessa there's only 20 months between them so she's more used to him being around than not. He is becoming more boisterous now and is starting to play fight a lot with DH which she wants to get involved in, but can't really without someone getting hurt, which causes its own problems. I wonder if she's a bit jealous, although she gets plenty of one on one time with DH herself too. Maybe I'll have a talk with him about whether we can mitigate that a bit. Maybe a small play fight with DS then a bit of focused time with DD instead of just one or the other mummy is not good enough to fight over

AndNow I am seriously considering putting her back into pull ups, though I know for the next week while with me, DH or MIL she will be largely dry.

I've realised its sounds a bit mental me saying she's dry or having multiple wets, but that is the reality for us. Its one or the other.

I see what you mean about her not having known a world without him Strictly, but IME they can still be jealous; I have a 13mo age gap and DS1 gets horribly jealous of DS2 if we praise him, or show any sort of favour towards him (cuddles, tickling etc). It has to be so even-handed or DS1 takes it to heart. DS2 conversely doesn't care at all

I'd suggest finding something she can do, that DS currently can't; like reading or painting or something. Ideally it would be something that you update daily, so it's ongoing and holds her interest. Maybe a challenge to take a photo of a bird or something natural on the walk to school, which you can print on printer paper and stick up onto a board when she comes home? Something cumulative like that might work. That is a random notion but you get the idea - the main point is to find a thing she can be great at and to make it hers. That might satisfy her wish for attention and lead to a natural end to wetting. You never know, it could work.

Ok. I haven't read all of the rest of the thread, but tbh, if this was my daughter I would put her in pull ups for school. Keep her dry.

Arrange a private consultant appt ( I realise this can be costly, but I would saving up like hell for it) and ask for expert advice.

This could be a medical issue or a mental one by now, but whichever way you look at it, your poor daughter is spending the day soaked in wee. And kids, other kids, will be avoiding her. Sorry. But reception kids are brutal!

I'm wondering if trousers might work better for teachers to notice she's wet? My own 5yo was soaking wet the other day, dress and tights, from water play and even I didn't notice until I was changing her for swimming at 4pm. Also, were you told by a doctor to use pads? Seems like she might just be using them like nappies and not bothering to go. Especially if she can get away with not changing. If you think it's psychological/behavioural I would think about ditching these.

We had a word with DDs teacher on Friday mainly to explain how we are trying to get her assessed for physical issues but in the meantime have they any idea of what to do to address the mental side of it. It was PE day so they said they'd use that as an excuse to check her and they'd do it again at a later point. The head sat her down and had a nice word with her too about the importance of just getting changed if she has an accident, which seems to have sunken in far more than us and her teachers. She was dry all Friday and as expected was dry yesterday with us.

Trousers are something we've been considering too. The pads had, until this recent set back, been the key to keeping her dry. If she leaked slightly or just hadn't dried properly and felt her knickers wet, then she'd just stop attempting to be dry for the rest of the day (another thing that's had us thinking it was more a mental issue). They're a sort of safety net recommended by ERIC, but maybe we'll readdress these if the pattern repeats itself again next term.

Classrooms full of sweaty children often smell anyway, especially in the afternoon when they get back from running around at lunch break. Unless you are working one to one with a child it can be hard to notice if it's just fresh urine not faeces.

Poor poppet.
I hope it improves soon.
Glad the talk at school helped. Isn't it annoying when your children listen to teachers more? 😉

If it's just her tights and knickers that are wet then it's unlikely to be noticed. If it's a grey skirt then it should be.
If you've spoken to staff and asked them to check and they haven't then that's not on. It would take a few seconds to check before each play time that DD had been to the bathroom and was dry.
If it's just her underwear that's wet they won't know though.

Well the headmistress' talk didn't have the intended effect . She's stayed resolutely dry, even without pads - at her request - until today. She wasn't massively wet, probably the sort of wet that a pad would have dealt with. But she knew, and she stayed in it. I hadn't realised she was in the bathroom so walked in on her. She looked at me and said she was wet and she knew it. Then wiped herself and pulled the wet clothes back up and wandered off! She got a very stern "No, DD - spare clothes are ". She cried then, I think more because she realised she wasn't going to get away with it than because she'd been told to change.

She will not explain why she is doing this. She just grunts and stares like you're talking a foreign language.

Other than the nice silence I currently getting, the good news is my GPs have given her a cancellation appt for Thursday am, so hopefully we'll be seeing the enuresis clinic before the end of March. Although it seems largely a mental issue with her, I don't want to rule out the possibility that its stemming from a physical issue she wants to hide.

Supernanny used to say that if kids can control it and just don't think of it that they should be put in knickers and left wet for a bit as it would be uncomfortable.
She said that pads gave them the reason to be less self-aware.

Would this be an option at all? Or is this advice outdated now?