Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

My Ds has brought this poem home from school and been told to learn it. Please come and give me your thoughts on wether I should speak to the school.

476 replies

MTPurse · 11/02/2016 20:26

As the title says, Ds has came home from school today with a Poem to learn, He has to learn it to be read out between a group of them(apparently he was chosen to read it as he is good at drama/being dramatic).

This is all I know, I have no other info on what it is about and why he has to learn it yet

Now I am not into poetry at all so maybe I just don't 'get it' but I really think this is completely unsuitable for Children due to the context. I am not a strict parent at all but Guns , Knives, Swords and Violence have no part in my family life and I will not allow my ds to play cod and stuff like that, in fact we have had numerous arguments about this.

Personally, I get the humour in it and think it would be fine on a staffroom wall but aibu to think it is not suitable for children?

Here is the poem:

The Lesson

Chaos ruled OK in the classroom
as bravely the teacher walked in
the nooligans ignored him
his voice was lost in the din

'The theme for today is violence
and homework will be set
I'm going to teach you a lesson
one that you'll never forget'

He picked on a boy who was shouting
and throttled him then and there
then garrotted the girl behind him
(the one with grotty hair)

Then sword in hand he hacked his way
between the chattering rows
'First come, first severed' he declared
'fingers, feet or toes'

He threw the sword at a latecomer
it struck with deadly aim
then pulling out a shotgun
he continued with his game

The first blast cleared the backrow
(where those who skive hang out)
they collapsed like rubber dinghies
when the plug's pulled out

'Please may I leave the room sir? '
a trembling vandal enquired
'Of course you may' said teacher
put the gun to his temple and fired

The Head popped a head round the doorway
to see why a din was being made
nodded understandingly
then tossed in a grenade

And when the ammo was well spent
with blood on every chair
Silence shuffled forward
with its hands up in the air

The teacher surveyed the carnage
the dying and the dead
He waggled a finger severely
'Now let that be a lesson' he said

Roger McGough :

OP posts:
diddl · 12/02/2016 08:49

Sorry, I didn't answer the question!

I think for me at that age it would have given me nightmares, so I would be on the side of 10 being too young.

It strikes me as something written to shock just for the sake of it, but with no other merit.

Also, if the Head threw a grenade in the room, why was the teacher still alive??

maybebabybee · 12/02/2016 08:54

Why, nicki? Why is it about whether the poem is 'good' or not? Poetry is totally subjective.

I agree with crystal re: violence in other literature, anyway. Shakespeare is a brilliant example. As is WW1 & 2 poetry.

MiaowTheCat · 12/02/2016 08:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Floisme · 12/02/2016 08:55

I've just scrapped most of my post as whattheseithakasmean says it better on the page 9.

I'll just add that some of this reminds me of the Moors Murder trials when I was 10. We lived in Manchester so the events were very local and I can still remember the adults trying to forbid us from talking about it - and failing miserably. Left to our own devices, we scared ourselves to death.

Children know when terrible things happen and poetry can sometimes be a safe way of exploring their worst nightmares.

velourvoyageur · 12/02/2016 08:55

As a ten year old I would not have engaged with and been upset with that poem. I would have thought oh, another poem about something I can't really imagine and which will almost definitely never happen here. I was very naïve as a kid because I grew up in a safe MC bubble & when I came face to face with a dangerous situation I was shocked because I had always thought that sort of thing would be so removed from my world! Making fun of something serious makes it seem less real - if you can joke about it, it's either not serious or not likely to happen.
WWI poetry made us thoughtful in my class and much of that is very subtle.

BiddyPop · 12/02/2016 08:56

I remember doing that poem at about that age, and really enjoying it. The rhythm bounces along and the images are graphic, but there is a serious point (I got it at speech and drama but there were a few disruptive guys in school and I said it at some stage and the teacher prompted a BIG chat about the chaos in the classroom).

MerryMarigold · 12/02/2016 08:56

I think he'd be better off memorising Michael Rosen's 'Chocolate cake'!

I have a Y5 ds and can see both sides. I think my ds would love this poem, would sort of get the irony as in 'it's not real and it's a joke', though not the depth of it. To me it's a bit like watching a Lego movie about zombies where they all get shot and explode, or a lego police thing where everyone gets killed. It's so unreal, I don't really mind if ds watches this. I would never, ever let him watch this if it were real people. For some reason, it being Lego makes it 'bearable' (even if I would rather he watched Time Team!).

At the same time, I think kids are exposed to so much violence it's a shame there has to be more. (My ds2 who is 7 says kids play 'Call of Duty' in the playground, he thought it was a playground game, but clearly enough of them know it to have created a playground game!). I know the poem may be satirical and a 'comment' but it's still more violence, it still puts those images in your head. I think 'responsible' agencies such as schools, clubs, scouts etc. should be encouraging children to think beyond it.

LittleLionMansMummy · 12/02/2016 08:57

The point about children seeing things on the news is an interesting one. Isn't the reason Newsround is made specifically for children is to deliver messages about our world in an accessible and age appropriate way? My issue with this poem is that it is accessible, but not, in my opinion, 10yo age appropriate. Save it for GCSE.

velourvoyageur · 12/02/2016 08:59
  • been upset by
PippaHotamus · 12/02/2016 09:01

That's a terrible poem. It's not what I'd call poetry. It's badly constructed, the subject matter is Hmm

I'd be refusing to consider it and asking for a different one. The reasons being obvious. It's a piece of crap.

BoffinMum · 12/02/2016 09:02

It's one thing finding your way to a poem like that and having a laugh, and quite another thing using up brain power memorising something that comes across as little more than glorified doggerel.

So a waste of time and I would not be keen on my children spending time learning it by heart. It would be like getting them to memorise This be The Verse by Philip Larkin. At least the latter could provide some solace in the looming teenage years.

BoffinMum · 12/02/2016 09:04

"Man hands on misery to man/ It deepens like a coastal shelf" is EXACTLY what the OP's poem memorisation task will end up doing ....

BiddyPop · 12/02/2016 09:04

I meant the images are graphic in a way that a 10/11 year old will be interested in, not just "twee" like poetry we'd done before then.

The 6th class in local school, so ages 11 and 12, have just done their show that they wrote their own play about the events of WWI in the trenches and also in Dublin, having done a lot of research themselves. And actually had some of the kids doing scenes in the trenches themselves.

I don't think 10 is too young for it. DD is 10, and I was in talking to the 2 Y4 classes last month (about public policy stuff) and they were very engaged with it all. And brought up a lot of stuff that is gritty reality - MUCH more graphic and real-world aware than I ever was at their age.

And having listened to various chats in the back of the car over the past year of her friends, they notice a LOT more than you give them credit for. So they see the violence of war and impact through forced migration, and the drownings on the medditeranean, and talk about all that. And shootings in the US have been discussed, and then moving smoothly on to something like whether Liverpool deserved the win they got in Champions League, or what to do about 6th class taking over both basketball hoops at breaktimes when 4th were already playing on 1 (a student council debate was being planned about that - the 2 4th classes form the student council).

So yes, they are aware. But not dwelling unnecessarily on it.

Whatwhatinthewhatnow · 12/02/2016 09:09

MN says its shit. Better take back all Roger McGoughs awards then. Fellow of Literature who writes shit poetry... Pffft. I've seen better valentines cards. Wink

NickiFury · 12/02/2016 09:11

Ive already said that maybe further back down the thread.

PippaHotamus · 12/02/2016 09:11

Gilbert and George are taking the piss, too

BreatheandFlyAway · 12/02/2016 09:16

I think a lot of us find it ok because it's a blast from the past. But our past was VERY different to our kids' present. The terrible "severings" (to use the poem's words) in Syria, the US school shootings, the terrible cruelty and violence with the current world situation make this choice pretty dumb of the HT - WW1 poems say something and put thoughts in heads - this doggerel is just a blokey joke that doesn't fit with today's world at all. I too thought the teacher would be some newbie trying to be cool and get with the kids. Trouble is, you'll just be branded difficult if you say anything to the school - they don't take differences of opinion well IME.

Toraleistripe · 12/02/2016 09:16

My 10year old would love this. I couldn't be arsed to be upset about it. It's tongue in cheek.

diddl · 12/02/2016 09:19

As an aside, anyone else now singing "Lily the Pink"?Grin

Postchildrenpregranny · 12/02/2016 09:21

I dontnthink it's an acceptable poem in any circumstances given the classroom shootings in USA (and Dunblane)

BoffinMum · 12/02/2016 09:21

I think my biggest problem with that poem homework is its utter lack of vision and ambition.

I would have set something like this as a class choral speaking exercise and have different groups learn different sections, and then perform it all together very dramatically for parents. I would have explained the basics of the War of Independence as well, and shown pictures of all the places mentioned as they were then and as they are now. Kids would also have been asked to calculate distance in relation to available horsepower, draw maps of the ride, and work out what all the unfamiliar terms meant (e.g. grenadier). We could have explored the biography of Longfellow a bit as well, as well as the way the British have warned of invaders and aggressors via beacons, for example.

Much more exciting and much more enduring. Might even have been tempted to link up with a Boston school over Skype and do some choral speaking together. What a wonderful basis for half a term's or even a term's work.

Paul Revere's Ride (by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow)

Listen my children and you shall hear
Of the midnight ride of Paul Revere,
On the eighteenth of April, in Seventy-five;
Hardly a man is now alive
Who remembers that famous day and year.

He said to his friend, "If the British march
By land or sea from the town to-night,
Hang a lantern aloft in the belfry arch
Of the North Church tower as a signal light,-
One if by land, and two if by sea;
And I on the opposite shore will be,
Ready to ride and spread the alarm
Through every Middlesex village and farm,
For the country folk to be up and to arm."

Then he said "Good-night!" and with muffled oar
Silently rowed to the Charlestown shore,
Just as the moon rose over the bay,
Where swinging wide at her moorings lay
The Somerset, British man-of-war;
A phantom ship, with each mast and spar
Across the moon like a prison bar,
And a huge black hulk, that was magnified
By its own reflection in the tide.

Meanwhile, his friend through alley and street
Wanders and watches, with eager ears,
Till in the silence around him he hears
The muster of men at the barrack door,
The sound of arms, and the tramp of feet,
And the measured tread of the grenadiers,
Marching down to their boats on the shore.

Then he climbed the tower of the Old North Church,
By the wooden stairs, with stealthy tread,
To the belfry chamber overhead,
And startled the pigeons from their perch
On the sombre rafters, that round him made
Masses and moving shapes of shade,-
By the trembling ladder, steep and tall,
To the highest window in the wall,
Where he paused to listen and look down
A moment on the roofs of the town
And the moonlight flowing over all.

Beneath, in the churchyard, lay the dead,
In their night encampment on the hill,
Wrapped in silence so deep and still
That he could hear, like a sentinel's tread,
The watchful night-wind, as it went
Creeping along from tent to tent,
And seeming to whisper, "All is well!"
A moment only he feels the spell
Of the place and the hour, and the secret dread
Of the lonely belfry and the dead;
For suddenly all his thoughts are bent
On a shadowy something far away,
Where the river widens to meet the bay,-
A line of black that bends and floats
On the rising tide like a bridge of boats.

Meanwhile, impatient to mount and ride,
Booted and spurred, with a heavy stride
On the opposite shore walked Paul Revere.
Now he patted his horse's side,
Now he gazed at the landscape far and near,
Then, impetuous, stamped the earth,
And turned and tightened his saddle girth;
But mostly he watched with eager search
The belfry tower of the Old North Church,
As it rose above the graves on the hill,
Lonely and spectral and sombre and still.
And lo! as he looks, on the belfry's height
A glimmer, and then a gleam of light!
He springs to the saddle, the bridle he turns,
But lingers and gazes, till full on his sight
A second lamp in the belfry burns.

A hurry of hoofs in a village street,
A shape in the moonlight, a bulk in the dark,
And beneath, from the pebbles, in passing, a spark
Struck out by a steed flying fearless and fleet;
That was all! And yet, through the gloom and the light,
The fate of a nation was riding that night;
And the spark struck out by that steed, in his flight,
Kindled the land into flame with its heat.
He has left the village and mounted the steep,
And beneath him, tranquil and broad and deep,
Is the Mystic, meeting the ocean tides;
And under the alders that skirt its edge,
Now soft on the sand, now loud on the ledge,
Is heard the tramp of his steed as he rides.

It was twelve by the village clock
When he crossed the bridge into Medford town.
He heard the crowing of the cock,
And the barking of the farmer's dog,
And felt the damp of the river fog,
That rises after the sun goes down.

It was one by the village clock,
When he galloped into Lexington.
He saw the gilded weathercock
Swim in the moonlight as he passed,
And the meeting-house windows, black and bare,
Gaze at him with a spectral glare,
As if they already stood aghast
At the bloody work they would look upon.

It was two by the village clock,
When he came to the bridge in Concord town.
He heard the bleating of the flock,
And the twitter of birds among the trees,
And felt the breath of the morning breeze
Blowing over the meadow brown.
And one was safe and asleep in his bed
Who at the bridge would be first to fall,
Who that day would be lying dead,
Pierced by a British musket ball.

You know the rest. In the books you have read
How the British Regulars fired and fled,--
How the farmers gave them ball for ball,
From behind each fence and farmyard wall,
Chasing the redcoats down the lane,
Then crossing the fields to emerge again
Under the trees at the turn of the road,
And only pausing to fire and load.

So through the night rode Paul Revere;
And so through the night went his cry of alarm
To every Middlesex village and farm,--
A cry of defiance, and not of fear,
A voice in the darkness, a knock at the door,
And a word that shall echo for evermore!
For, borne on the night-wind of the Past,
Through all our history, to the last,
In the hour of darkness and peril and need,
The people will waken and listen to hear
The hurrying hoof-beats of that steed,
And the midnight message of Paul Revere.

BoffinMum · 12/02/2016 09:22

diddl Grin

BoffinMum · 12/02/2016 09:25

Of course it is helpful the portraits of Paul Revere resemble Jack Black ...

My Ds has brought this poem home from school and been told to learn it. Please come and give me your thoughts on wether I should speak to the school.
Highsteaks · 12/02/2016 09:36

I don't think this sort of thing can be compared to things like 'Horrible Histories'. All the historical violence is 'safe' because its very far removed from their own lives, they know it would never happen now and so they can safely go to town thinking about the goriness of queens being beheaded, or bloody Roman battles or whatever.

The above poem is really.quite graphic, and set in a situation they experience every day. Plus, as others have said, all of the violence within schools means that sort of thing happening is not entirely beyond the realms of possibility.

There are loads of poems out there that could be used to discuss figurative language and the like, I think its a very.odd choice.

Dragongirl10 · 12/02/2016 09:40

Vile and inapropriate in school.