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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

My Ds has brought this poem home from school and been told to learn it. Please come and give me your thoughts on wether I should speak to the school.

476 replies

MTPurse · 11/02/2016 20:26

As the title says, Ds has came home from school today with a Poem to learn, He has to learn it to be read out between a group of them(apparently he was chosen to read it as he is good at drama/being dramatic).

This is all I know, I have no other info on what it is about and why he has to learn it yet

Now I am not into poetry at all so maybe I just don't 'get it' but I really think this is completely unsuitable for Children due to the context. I am not a strict parent at all but Guns , Knives, Swords and Violence have no part in my family life and I will not allow my ds to play cod and stuff like that, in fact we have had numerous arguments about this.

Personally, I get the humour in it and think it would be fine on a staffroom wall but aibu to think it is not suitable for children?

Here is the poem:

The Lesson

Chaos ruled OK in the classroom
as bravely the teacher walked in
the nooligans ignored him
his voice was lost in the din

'The theme for today is violence
and homework will be set
I'm going to teach you a lesson
one that you'll never forget'

He picked on a boy who was shouting
and throttled him then and there
then garrotted the girl behind him
(the one with grotty hair)

Then sword in hand he hacked his way
between the chattering rows
'First come, first severed' he declared
'fingers, feet or toes'

He threw the sword at a latecomer
it struck with deadly aim
then pulling out a shotgun
he continued with his game

The first blast cleared the backrow
(where those who skive hang out)
they collapsed like rubber dinghies
when the plug's pulled out

'Please may I leave the room sir? '
a trembling vandal enquired
'Of course you may' said teacher
put the gun to his temple and fired

The Head popped a head round the doorway
to see why a din was being made
nodded understandingly
then tossed in a grenade

And when the ammo was well spent
with blood on every chair
Silence shuffled forward
with its hands up in the air

The teacher surveyed the carnage
the dying and the dead
He waggled a finger severely
'Now let that be a lesson' he said

Roger McGough :

OP posts:
BoboChic · 12/02/2016 07:49

There may have been ironic intention but there isn't ironic effect.

RidersOnTheStorm · 12/02/2016 07:53

Well, it's obvious to me.

McGough is an acclaimed poet and this is his style. I don't get how anyone could take it seriously.

Helmetbymidnight · 12/02/2016 07:55

Ah well he's well respected and acclaimed therefore it must be good.

pictish · 12/02/2016 07:55

The satire is obvious to me too. Sorry it has evaded you.

BoboChic · 12/02/2016 07:56

You don't have to take it seriously to think it trivializes violence, abuse of power etc.

TheCunnyFunt · 12/02/2016 07:56

I would not be happy at all for my child to learn this. A few years ago my brother was stabbed several times and he very nearly died. It was a very dark time for the whole family and it upsets me when I see/hear people making light of knife violence. If people had felt the pain I did as I sat in hospital waiting for my brother to die then they would not do this. I hate it on here when posters say that something makes them 'feel stabby'. I know it's just tongue in cheek but it makes me uncomfortable.

crystalgall · 12/02/2016 07:59

I don't think you understand poetry Bobo. I'm
Not trying to be rude but seriously anyone who thinks the very famous poet Roger McGough, in his very famous poem The Lesson, is trivialising violence, retribution, abuse of power in all seriousness, does not understand him or his poetry.

I think it probably isn't appropriate for a 10 year old but my god some of these responses are ridiculous.

velour it's not about looking down on people who find it disturbing. You should find it disturbing. It is disturbing. It can also encourage great discussion with children about lots of things. Which is the kind of the point about poetry in the classroom.

Livingforlove · 12/02/2016 08:17

English teacher here. We have not used that poem in the classroom since the Dunblane massacre.

BoboChic · 12/02/2016 08:17

I have a first class degree in literature and have read a lot of poetry and other things in five languages. And have an 11 year old. I'm not at all insecure about my interpretation of poetry or language in any context Wink.

SirChenjin · 12/02/2016 08:19

You omitted 3 very important words there crystal - "in my opinion".

LittleLionMansMummy · 12/02/2016 08:22

Makes me laugh that apparently only those with an 'understanding' of poetry will really 'get' this poem. I did a masters in English Literature and I still hate it and do not believe it is appropriate for 10 year olds. GCSE perhaps, but not junior school children. Appreciation of poetry is subjective. Stop looking down your snooty noses at people who don't like it, like you're claiming some kind of intellectual high ground. There are plenty of open minded, intelligent people on this thread who do not like it.

maybebabybee · 12/02/2016 08:24

I agree with what. It's fucking irony for goodness' sake.

No wonder poetry gets overlooked and dismissed if parents are moaning their precious little ones get exposed to anything challenging.

maybebabybee · 12/02/2016 08:25

Oh and BTW I don't "like" the poem, it's not my sort of thing, but I don't have an issue with it otherwise.

herethereandeverywhere · 12/02/2016 08:26

Rule 1 when looking at any creative writing, in this case poetry: Do not take literally.

Perhaps explaining that to a class of 10 year olds, in the context of the 'violence' may be tricky, but I'm not sure. It's supposed to be 'Beano' or 'St Trinians'-esque.

It's a sad world where our kids can see daily violence and horror on the news, play endless shoot em up computer games but it's a Roger McGough poem that's the thing being criticised.

NickiFury · 12/02/2016 08:26

I'm surprised at the considerable insistence on this thread of how people are supposed to view this poem. It's literary/artistic expression isn't it? We are not all supposed to receive it in the same way - in the eye of the beholder and all that. Dangerous ground to insist that we should ALL be seeing it the same way.

Helmetbymidnight · 12/02/2016 08:26

Yes little lion, exactly.

BoboChic · 12/02/2016 08:27

It's not "challenging". What on earth is "challenging" about it? It's as challenging as reality TV.

maybebabybee · 12/02/2016 08:29

I meant challenging in terms of it dealing with sensitive material, not challenging as in it's difficult to understand Hmm

LittleLionMansMummy · 12/02/2016 08:30

The point is herethere that I agree with you - that is why I won't be buying ds (when he reaches 10) those types of games or allowing him to watch a Stanley Kubrick film.

diddl · 12/02/2016 08:35

We all like different things, don't we.

I think that it's utter shite.

Can't see wht people think it great about it at all.

velourvoyageur · 12/02/2016 08:36

crystal you're assuming that they're going to do workshops with elements of counselling, analysis etc to look at the poem critically but it sounds as if OP's DS is just going to read it out loud.

maybebabybee · 12/02/2016 08:39

diddl I don't think the debate is whether it's a good poem or not, the point is whether or not people think it's appropriate for a ten-year-old.

I don't think it's a particularly good poem, but I would have no problem with a child reading it.

NickiFury · 12/02/2016 08:42

I think diddl's contribution is as valid as anyone else's on this thread and very much part of the "debate".

crystalgall · 12/02/2016 08:44

I'm not bothered about interpretation or whether people hate the poem. Yes in my opinion it's a good poem and anyone can hate it/find it disturbing/think it's rubbish/whatever.
I'm also not debating the fact that it isn't appropriate for a 10 year old and that contextually it probably isn't for the classroom. I've already said all that. It's more the knee jerk this is horrifying/appalling/my child would be devastated to read this etc that's a bit ott.
My concern is a wider issue about what kind of literature should be allowed in the classroom. And my concern that those who are finding the violence in this poem deplorable would feel the same about any type of violence at any age in the classroom which I hope is not the case. Because that rules out Shakespeare right there.
A PP mentioned knives and a brother who was stabbed. That is awful and anyone's experience of violence is awful but hat cannot possibly mean that we don't tackle violent subject matter in the classroom. It was bloody ridiculous that the Carol Ann Duffy poem Education for Leisure was taken off the curriculum because it engaged students and created thought provoking conversations.

Berora · 12/02/2016 08:45

Personally, I would not have read this poem to my DC, never mind want him to learn it by heart. There is so much violence everywhere - on the news, newspapers, etc. - that we all seem to be becoming de-sensitised by it. If it were my child, I would have a quiet word with DC's teacher, explain that this particular poem goes against everything I try to instill in my DCs and ask that someone else reads it. I'm not buying into the 'it's just a poem' argument. At 10 years old, the children are too young to make that distinction, even if they nod when asked and say they do understand it's not for real.