to admit I can't cope with this level of sleep deprivation, please help

[LycheesAtNoon]

How do you cope?

Baby is 5months.

Used to sleep 6-7 hours in a stretch. Now wakes frequently and screams until I breastfeed him back to sleep. On typical night he goes to bed at 8pm and wakes to feed at 10pm, 1am, 3am, 4am, 5am and is up for day around 6-7am By the time I've got back to sleep each time he's waking up again!

I feel like I'm going mad. I keep shouting at him at 5am

He has 3x30min naps during day.

Should I start sleep-training? What if he's hungry? Has anyone tried CC? Or is this just a regression/growth spurt that I need to ride out?

Also his wee has a strong smell since his sleep went haywire, he's also drooling all day, could he be teething/thirsty?

Any tips for coping with sleep deprivation?

Thank you waitingforsomething. I was beginning to think it was just me. its a different parenting choice CC. some people wont do it and some will.

Following this thread with interest. My DD is 3.5 months and has just started sleeping badly. She is exclusively bf.

Ive had lots of comments about hunger and have been told to introduce baby sodding rice and formula on a night but I don't want too!.

Op I second trying to extend his naps during the day, have a proper bed tine regime, switch his solid,meals during the day to something a bit bulkier like potato or porridge, give him plenty of boob during the day.

I was just thinking how nice and supportive this thread was even though people have different opinions. I guess there's always one .

Babies are all different as are parents. That's the truth. I hope one of these suggestions helps OP.

Yes I've been mainly using jars of carrot purée, carrot-potato puree etc (half a jar mixed with baby rice and water). I guess he wasn't getting enough calories
When I started weaning him I made batches of puree from potato and sweet potato (with expressed milk instead of water) so I'll go back to doing this. Just takes so long peeling, chopping, boiling and blending especially when he's so clingy... but worth it if it improves his sleep! Shame they don't make jars of pure potato/sweet potato.

I'll offer breast before meals too. Today I counted his breast feeds, he's only had 2 short feeds since 7am! So I guess he's hungry at night.

Thanks for the avocado tip, I have one in fridge so will puree that with his sweet potato this eve.

Quick question about naps... how long is too long in daytime? Today he's had 4naps totalling approx 3hours and has just nodded off on my lap for another one! Should I let him sleep and shift his bedtime back a bit? He seems tired and was crying for an hour before napping.

You can buy packs of pre chopped fresh butternut squash and sweet potato! Just steam and mash

Oh that's good! I'll have a look in Tesco tomorrow.
What about tins of 'new potatoes in water' (no added salt or preservatives) are they suitable to puree?

ooohhh lychees that really is a tricky one. every baby is completely different. all of mine stopped day time naps at 1 year old. I had friends whose little ones used to nap when they got back from nursery and even reception at infants. it is such a difficult one.

the only reason for suggesting either cutting down on or condensing the naps - 2 long ones rather than 4 shorter ones is that it might help your LO sleep better at night.

I think that the most important thing is to have a routine and what that is will be completely defined by your baby and you, what you can cope with.

All of mine really preferred snacks to huge meals though if they weren't sleeping well, I did used to stuff them full of food - potato, sweet potato, swede, parsnip etc. when they were very little I used to do the batch cooking on a Saturday so my DH could look after the children, puree it and stick it in the freezer ice cube trays to defrost as I went. I also made mine custard using breast milk as they got older and they loved the little yoghurts as well. None of them has a sweet tooth now. we still have chocolate eggs from last easter in the cupboard.

It sounds like a routine might help things for you but again don't be too hard on yourself. once you have a routine it will make you feel a bit more in control of things. can you set aside some of your own food each evening for use the next day? I always saved the potatoes, brown rice etc to reuse for baby the next day lunch. it can again be a great time saver.

Studies have been done which monitor the cortisol levels of the infant during the CC process. It has shown that even though the baby stops crying and goes to sleep after a certain number of days that the cortisol levels remain elevated which is not good for an infant's mental development. You can google it.

CC may give you the desired outcome of your baby sleeping but in the process can be harmful to their mental well-being. What studies have been done that say it's not harmful? I haven't read any.

And what does co-sleeping have to do with this? There are gentle sleep methods that can be used (eg Pantley No Cry Sleep Solution). I don't think it's right letting an infant essentially cry themselves to sleep (which is what CC is). If an adult was upset over something, you wouldn't just let them cry for X amount of minutes before comforting them. Same applies to babies.

just a suggestion, get a small potato, prick it and microwave it to cook it then scoop it out as mash. would avoid the tinned potatos if possible and it is just as quick and easy to bung one in the microwave and scoop out. have to say that that tip has saved a screaming baby on many occasions.

coconutpie - don't come on a thread making someone who already feels absolutely dreadful feel even worse.

I will ask you again - in case my first request wasn't clear - can you cut and paste the link to this study please. I am sure all the doctors and health visitors that I know who also recommend controlled crying would be really pleased to read this new research.

My ds (now 16!) did this too. I know how tired you must feel but I promise you it will pass. There could be several reasons: teething, growth spurt, wanting to socialize or bad sleep associations.
I definitely agree to try to feed (milk) as much as possible during the day and restructure the naps.
I did controlled crying when ds1 was 7 months old and never looked back. With his two younger siblings I didn't need to because I established a routine and good sleep associations from the beginning. I always never let a baby fall asleep when feeding as they will eventually learn the only way to sleep is on the boob (!) so when they rouse slightly during the night they will need it to settle again.
Until things settle down (and they will), you need help now. Somebody must take your baby over night now and again to let you catch up. Have a glass of red wine, wear ear plugs and get a night of unbroken sleep. Good luck.

How is it making the OP feel dreadful? OP asked for advice, and if CC was needed. How will that make her feel worse that I have referred to a study that has said its not recommended? Or are you just justifying your own decision to do CC? It's obvious what the problem is here - OP's baby isn't getting enough breastmilk due to the early introduction of solids and those solids appear to have replaced breastfeeds. CC is not going to solve a hunger problem.

Link to a study done by the Australian Association of Infant Mental Health:
www.aaimhi.org/inewsfiles/Position_Paper_1_updated.pdf

Op I was also going to say just microwave potato and scoop out the mash.
Also ellas kitchen do a 4 month pouch which is just sweet potato may be worth getting a few if you plan to use a lot of it

shop.ellaskitchen.co.uk/products/sweet-potatoes-sweet-potatoes

It's 70% sp and 30 water but there will be a percentage of water in one you do yourself

3 'meals' a day is a lot for a 5 month old and by reducing milk feeds his calories will be way down. Hence night wakings

I only feed my 7 month old 2 meals a day. NHS says 8-9 months is when to make the move to 3 meals a day

Hope you get some sleep respite

Ella's Kitchen single purees such as Peas, peas, peas and parsnip, parsnip, parsnip contain only that one ingredient!!

I agree with coconutty and personally would never recommend or do cc. I don't think anyone's post or aim is to make op feel bad, she hasn't tried cc anyway right??? A range of opinions but as with everything its up to the mother what suits her particular baby. My OPINION is that cc is not an ideal parenting tool, there are other ways and most importantly what's requires is support from partner/gin and tonic imo . I do baby led weaning though and some people are really anti that so its horses for courses!

Sorry: coconutpie

That Australian paper is not a great example of critical analysis tbh.... (Maybe why it's a "position paper" published on their website). It only really looks at two pieces of research, which give conflicting findings. The Middlemass paper rather contradicts the the Price paper....
Also raised cortisol levels over a certain period do not predicate or corolate with long term mental heath problems or indeed indicate an insecure attachment...
Just saying....

coconutpie I really don't understand your need to take such a harsh and judgmental tone with your posts. I've noticed it on other threads including one of my own where you basically told me I was damaging my newborn baby. Giving advice or an opinion is obviously fine but any kernal of usefulness is rather lost in the patronising and berating way in which you do so.

Fcking horrendous, isn't it Lychees*, you have my sympathy. Sorry if anyone's already suggested this, but have you taken him to the GP for a check? My DS went through a really bad phase at around this rime and it turned out to be an ear infection. Plus the GP was a very sympathetic listener after I spent the first five minutes sobbing hysterically.

Other than that, all I can advise is you do whatever you can to survive. Just whatever works for you, till you get through it.

unfortunately worriedmum100 there is a small but vocal group of parents who think that those of us who did controlled crying don't love our children as much as they do because they would never leave a baby to cry. the only answer in their opinion is to co-sleep and breast feed until they are 10.

that kind of judgemental nonsense is of no use to someone who already feels crap about the way they parent their child and have all sorts of guilt.

this was a lovely supportive thread until that post. What a shame some people feel the need to spout their dogma in a harsh and judgey way rather than just offering up other options. being told you are basically starving your child is completely unacceptable in my book.

just a quick google takes you to this paper which finds CC doesn't do any harm.

www.nhs.uk/news/2012/09September/Pages/Controlled-crying-safe-for-babies.aspx

I used to get wound up by these posters. but now I just visualise David Walliams in the "Bitty" sketch and I get over it.

worriedmum - what are you on about? Where did I say you were "damaging your newborn"? And since when is giving my personal opinion patronising and berating?

And mummymeister - that's ridiculous. Why the need to make accusations on this thread just because we disagree on cc? I have never said anything about co-sleeping or bf until age 10 on here, you are the one who made that up. I suggested OP increase milk feeds and not give so many purées as that is not what baby needs at that age. But somehow because I don't agree on cc and quoted a study I'm seen as "patronising" lol. Where does the OP say she feels crap and guilt because of cc? She hasn't even tried cc! If someone wishes to try a certain method of sleep training then surely they want to hear all opinions on it, pros and cons, hence OP mentioning it). And where did I say that cc means the parent doesn't love their child as much? Don't be so dramatic and making up things that I did not say.

I did cc when the 4 month sleep regression lasted till six months. Very good decision for us. I also used to try a big bottle of formula in evening to try and fill her up. Not sure if that worked or not. After a while I couldn't be bothered with the formula, and she was a great eater when I started weaning. It will get easier op! I think if you work on getting it better now, you have a better chance of good sleep habits sticking into toddler hood. In my opinion it's about them learning to self settle between sleep cycles. Second time around I'm planning on not giving my baby the boob every 45 min as comforter. I almost lost the plot!

I didn't say your opinion was patronising and berating. I said the way in which I've seen you give it is.

I'm not going to go into my own thread in detail as it's easy for you to search it but it was on a very mundane topic about transporting my newborn on the underground and you waded in just to tell me that a baby bijorn carrier was "extremely bad for my baby" and that I "had to get rid of it and buy a proper sling". Ignoring the fact that I had already said I also had a Caraboo....

But anyway others made the same point about other slings being more comfortable but managed to do so in a way that wasn't quite so unnecessarily unpleasant.

All I'm saying is that any genuinely good advice you may have from your own experience tends to get lost in the way you put it across.