to think that women should just accept that they are selfish and that everything they do is wrong?

[youmustbekidding]

Let's look at the objective facts. If you're single but want to be married, you're all about trapping some poor man and therefore selfishly denying him his freedom, if you're single but don't want to be married, you're a ball-breaker, poss a lesbian, and definitely a man-hater and selfishly unnatural. If you're sexually active on top of that, then you're also a slut. If you want to have kids, you are selfishly listening to your own biological needs; if you don't want to have kids you are selfishly prioritising three trips to long-haul destinations each year over your biological imperative and anyway who will wipe your arse when you're 93? Having kids in itself opens up an entire vista of selfishness - if you're young when you have them, you're irresponsible and selfishly thinking of your own gratification over the financial security of your offspring. If you wait until you're older then you will selfishly bleed the nhs dry single-handedly due to the multiple medical complications you will encounter, plus you will probably die before your kids reach the age of 5 which is of course, you guessed, selfish.

And it doesn't stop there. If you have one child only, they will be weird and introverted and possibly be a serial killer. You have therefore raised a serial killer due to your selfish desire to take control of your fertility. More than one, and don't you know that there's a population crisis, and how dare you add more humans to the already suffering and overcrowded planet, you selfish bitch. If you breastfeed any of your one or many children, you're doing it for yourself really, but if you bottle-feed you might as well inject them with heroin.

As soon as you've pushed the baby out of your vagina (or had him/her cut through your stomach, which is obviously what the really selfish women do, due to them selfishly opting for major abdominal surgery which leaves them unable to pick up so much as a measuring jug for six weeks due to being too posh to push), the fun starts all over again with considering whether or not go to back to work. This is obviously less of a consideration for men, who are either providing for their family (heroes) or looking after their family (heroes). If a woman wants to provide for her family, she is a cold-hearted bitch career woman and nobody knows why she even had children if all she wanted to do is farm them out to strangers. On the other hand, if she wants to stay at home, she's a sponger and why the fuck did she bother going to university anyway.

Anything I've missed?

Actually I think it's quite accurate tbh, which is depressing. And it's not so much in my immediate circle of friends but in family and acquaintances, colleagues etc. The people you can't choose IYSWIM.

Whatever you do in life, someone, somewhere will have a problem with it. So what? Just try not to hang around with arseholes.

Take your kids out to the supermarket on your own with messy hair and dishevelled clothes with a tantrum thrown in, you are a bad mum who can't cope (or perhaps you are depressed if it's a nicer person). A Dad in this position (possibly with worse hair and clothes that don't match and tights worn as trousers) is a hero, doing a great job, he will actually get people coming up to him to tell him this - as reported by my DH.

I do believe that younger (not elderly) women are the most vulnerable to judgement, harassment and general disrespectful behaviour. Easy targets.

I think it's a good (and witty) post youmustbekidding and the phrase lets look at the objective facts is clearly used rhetorically

women are often damned if we do and damned if we don't

although this also applies to many other groups of people
you cant please all the people all the time so just please yourself:o

There are plenty of time women are viewed as heroes. I think returning to work is the main one.

I really don't think women returning to work are seen as heroes - more like liabilities who are going to take time off work because of their children being ill. And then go on maternity leave, again.

I returned immediately twice and was repeatedly told I was a super hero, amazing, fantastic and a legend.

I think if a few posters that disagree with what the OP has posted, went to a very typical (possibly WC/Builders etc) type pub, whilst any rape case is going on, they'd experience this.

I've run into pubs, just to use the toilet and heard sexist shit being spouted.

I was 'happily single' for a good few years and I've been judged on that and treated quite badly, even though the men around me have done worse.

Mothers who decide against residency, or have their children removed (even if it's because of MH etc issues) are judged worse, than men who choose to abandon their children.

We're slowly changing the definitions of what and how a woman/mother/daughter should be behaving, but if more men got involved in the change, it would move quicker.

I often wonder were all these men are when the courts give an outrageous decision in abuse/rape cases. Why aren't they protesting in the street when the verdict is accepting that, that is part of a mans expected behaviour?

The way you said it is OTT, but I can't say I disagree with what you've said.

I often wonder, though, how much of it do we put on ourselves (I mean women criticizing other women) as opposed to society-at-large's dictates, iyswim.

The greater question is how do we stop and/or change things?

Hello OP I've not read the whole thread but I think you are spot on and I don't read the Daily Heil.

And most people are judgmental to some degree even if they hide it (to an extent) with their friends and family.

If you try to dress well and look nice, you're a frivolous idiot. If you decide you don't care and wear whatever, you're a slovenly battle axe.

I'll have what she's having

Scarily true. All you have to ask is "are men being judged for this? " and there you have it.

Yup- spot on!

Everything I read something or have a convo with someone about feminism etc I always ask the question - would we tell a man this? That the assault was his fault because of what he wore or how drunk he was?
Or why women's ages are so important in society but men's aren't? It's usually a good starting point to make many people start getting flustered.

Op- you've missed out how selfish a woman is to leave and divorce her dh because of his dreadful behaviour and how she should just suck it up. After all, kids need a dad.

It still astounds me how many of my long term friends dropped me like a sack of shit when I left my dh, even though they knew what he was like and encouraged me to leave. And even now, I'm stigmatised by people who dont know me. Currently the popular theme is dislike of me for getting a fabulous well paid p/t job and managing just fine. Apparently that's wrong and I should be in a caravan, v poor with no food, shit hair and wishing I'd stayed married. Right.

Men committing suicide, having to go to war or not getting treated for prostrate cancer is always somehow the fault of feminists. Not other men oh no.

"...or not getting treated for prostrate cancer is always somehow the fault of feminists."

I wouldn't blame feminists; Bill Bailey did try his best to get us all sticking our fingers up our bums.

I'm really sorry that you feel like that OP ...

And ...

I love you

You forgot this one OP. Any drought is the fault of women too. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/8723740/Women-waste-50bn-litres-of-water-shaving-legs-in-shower.html

Plenty of the fecking stuff now (water), wonder who's fault that is.........

TBF sometimes gay men get blamed for floods and droughts.

to think that women should just accept that they are selfish and that everything they do is wrong?

Yes.

It saves time

Whilst I don't disagree with some of the sentiment, and vertain indiduals view others that way I think that it could be said that men do get a certain level of it too
harsh put
I don't think that men have it easy either. A SAHM = a devoted mum. A SAHD = cocklodger. A woman who wants to keep her pre-marital assets in her own name after marriage = sensible. A man who wants to do the same = dump him quick! A woman who earns more than her DP = if he tells her how to spend "her money", he's a financial abuser. If the man earns more, "all money is family money" and he can't treat himself without asking permission. I'm a woman btw!

add to that
likes/talks to children when out and about =pervert (woman admires cute kiddies)
Gets on with his mum = mummys boy (whereas a woman is close to her mother
likes a drink = alcoholic (woman just 'likes' a drink)
has a hobby = not a family man needs to put family first (woman has outside interests)
Bloke is expected to leave his children on split up in majority of cases.
Bloke fathering children without being able to support = feckless (woman has been let down, needs support) not that both need to take responsibility for life choices
Maybe both need to appreciate each other...again I am a woman..I'm just old enough to be objective..

Can't argue with any of that, OP. Pretty succinct...

Brilliant post OP. Agree with every word.

If you look after your appearance, you want men to look at you, after all why bother otherwise.

If you don't, then it's because you've got your man so don't bother making an effort.

I made the mistake of mentioning that I had put weight on, to be told by a male friend that he and his mate had noticed and were talking about that. They were surprised I had put on so much (nearly 1 1/2 st). Apparently it wasn't like me to let myself go. I told him I was very sorry that he and his mate had to put up with looking at a fatter me, and indeed I should be aware how my appearance affected the poor men that had to look at me. Something to do with comfort eating and drinking after losing my DH.