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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be sick of people slating Faith schools

999 replies

Jenga123 · 30/01/2016 15:09

Don't get me wrong I understand why some people may be against them but the negativity I've come across recently is, quite frankly ridiculous. I've been told by friends of friends, family etc that they pay for my dd's to attend their catholic primary and secondary schools and that tax payers that are paying towards these schools should not have to do so if their children can't attend these schools. Well let me just say the average amount of income tax each individual pays, that actually goes towards the upkeep of schools is minuscule, so they aren't in fact paying for them. Myself and the other parents of my dd's schools pay a considerable sum each year to the upkeep of the school and the school contributes 10% towards the costs of running their school and repairs etc.

I also come across animosity at the fact my children are getting a good education and people putting that down to them simply being baptised. But my point is if they feel that their own children are missing out by going to a less desirable school then I'm sure they could have them baptised therefor giving them a higher chance of securing a place at a faith school, and whilst I'm not advocating people pretending to be of the faith, I'm simply saying there are options.

As for my dd's schools like I said they are Catholic and are obviously places were parents of the same faith opt to send their children as they want them to be educated within that faith, and I can't see any problem with this to be honest so why am I hearing nothing but negativity from people?

OP posts:
ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 31/01/2016 10:24

Voluntary
www.gov.uk/guidance/voluntary-aided-schools-capital-funding

Usually responsible for at least 10% of capital cost. Grants are available.

So I suppose if you wanted to do a bigger project than the council would or could pay for then you could raise money. However, it remains the case that the vast majority of the capital costs plus the running costs are state funded.

BertrandRussell · 31/01/2016 10:47

"FSM rules apply in the same way as for all the other schools."
That wasn't what I asked. I asked what the % of FSM children is at your school compared to neighbouring schools.

Conyo is clearly speaking bollocks and should be ignored.

Itsmine · 31/01/2016 11:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GnomeWare · 31/01/2016 11:18

it should of course be absolutely fine for your children to attend a faith school

Yes it should, but in a lot of cases it wouldn't be! If my children were (hypothetically) graciously allowed into one then maybe we'd be 'lucky' and they wouldn't be discriminated against / looked down on / indoctrinated but I'd prefer that my children attended a school where they were accepted on exactly the same footing as every other pupil.

I find those attendance criteria lists which rank children's 'desirability for our school' in terms of their parents' religion deeply distasteful.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you had a good experience and that your son got a lot out of it Smile - it's just that imo ALL schools should offer an equal, fair and caring education to all their pupils, and religion (or lack of) shouldn't even be an issue.

catbasilio · 31/01/2016 11:29

My DC go to a catholic primary (with a strict admission criteria, greater London). I am Catholic but I am leaning towards atheism after having gone to mass every Sunday for the last 5 years. However, what absolutely love is the tight knit community at school and our church; teaching of Christian values; quiet 'me' time during mass. I don't brainwash my DC but I'd rather take what's best from the church.

I am now in a dilemma. I am in a catchment of an outstanding secular secondary but quite far away from any secondary catholic schools. I am increasingly thinking that a catholic secondary would be my preference. It is crazy but I don't want to become and outsider to my own church community.

Forthispostonly · 31/01/2016 11:32

If faith schools became non-denominational, those students attending would still need to receive at least the same state funding as now. There is no economic argument against faith schools as the state would be funding each child's education regardless of the ethos of the school. Atm some funding for some faith schools comes from the associated church so this actually supplements the state education spend.
As for those complaining that their taxes pay for something they cannot access, is that not the case for a huge proportion of council services? I don't use the library but I didn't object to my council tax being spent on books for it.

BertrandRussell · 31/01/2016 11:44

"As for those complaining that their taxes pay for something they cannot access, is that not the case for a huge proportion of council services? I don't use the library but I didn't object to my council tax being spent on books for it."

But you could use the library if you wanted to. You are not barred from borrowing books because you are not a member of a Church. The analogy would only work if you were legally obliged to borrow books, there were 3 libraries in your town including one next door to your house, but you were only allowed to use the two furthest away, while your neighbour had a choice of all three.

HSMMaCM · 31/01/2016 11:57

% of FSM sorry I didn't read it properly. The school probably has some of the wealthiest families in the area and also some of the poorest due to its unusual location. More children with additional needs than the other schools, more FSM and more travelling and looked after children.

HSMMaCM · 31/01/2016 11:59

Also ... Not the best SATs results and not the best attendance record. Children do make good progress at the school though, better than the other local schools.

Lightbulbon · 31/01/2016 12:03

I'm a firm believer in the total separation of church and state.

IMO religious observance in schools should be illegal.

Tanith · 31/01/2016 12:29

You are not barred from using a faith school. You're free to apply for a place at any state school. You may not meet the entrance criteria for some, but that's not restricted to faith criteria not is it the case at all faith schools.

lunar1 · 31/01/2016 12:30

If it was necessary to borrow books from the library you could do that no matter what your religion.

How is faith discrimination any different to race?

SoupDragon · 31/01/2016 12:36

You are not barred from using a faith school. You're free to apply for a place at any state school. You may not meet the entrance criteria for some...

So you would be happy with a school that had "white children" as one of the first admissions criteria?

HelsBels22 · 31/01/2016 12:36

Bertrandrussell I think your stance is too simplistic if your main objection is that you are paying for a service you cannot access.
Within our society, everyday we are paying for services that are not necessarily geared to everybody. A recent example could be the English lessons for Muslim Women, now this excludes non Muslim and men, and anybody who speaks English but most have no objection because different groups within society have different needs.

If your argument is just you don't agree with religion and education being linked that makes more sense.

Interestingly on this thread, most of the non religious parents who have sent their children to faith schools cannot wait to remove them.

JassyRadlett · 31/01/2016 12:37

You are not barred from using a faith school. You're free to apply for a place at any state school. You may not meet the entrance criteria for some, but that's not restricted to faith criteria not is it the case at all faith schools.

Oh please, that's semantics: those entrance criteria are set up to try to prevent the 'wrong' children getting in. Where there is pressure on school places (my borough is short 200 places) it is effectively a ban.

See also those schools with a partial non-faith intake. The issue is that after their faith places are filled, the next criteria (for the non-faith places) is siblings. Which generally means siblings of children who've got in under the faith criteria.

One CofE school near me is 'only' 50% faith places. The had four straight years when they took no kids on distance, faith siblings took all the non-faith places. A bad Ofsted seems to have reduced the number of tha faithful who want to send their kids there so distance kids may get a look in this year. It's our only hope for a loca school place, much as I loathe the idea of a CofE education for my child.

GnomeWare · 31/01/2016 12:38

How is faith discrimination any different to race?

Indeed. If you substitute the word 'faith' for 'race' in this debate, maybe it would be easier for people defending the status quo to understand why faith schools are 'slated'?

tinofbiscuits · 31/01/2016 12:42

While I agree that admissions policies for faith schools are often unfair, I'm not sure the tax argument really works. Parents with children at religious schools are taxpayers like anyone else. People who can't drive still pay road tax, childless people pay towards education, pacifists contribute to the defence budget.

OutWithTheDogs · 31/01/2016 12:45

Hels
A recent example could be the English lessons for Muslim Women, now this excludes non Muslim and men, and anybody who speaks English but most have no objection because different groups within society have different needs

This is a ridiculous example and has no relevance to the argument against excluding children from a school because of their parents lack of religion.

GnomeWare · 31/01/2016 12:49

different groups within society have different needs

No child NEEDS to attend a faith school. Their parents might prefer it, but it's unrealistic for each local area to provide a faith school for every faith that might have one on their wish list.

BertrandRussell · 31/01/2016 12:50

"% of FSM sorry I didn't read it properly. The school probably has some of the wealthiest families in the area and also some of the poorest due to its unusual location. More children with additional needs than the other schools, more FSM and more travelling and looked after children."

So your school has more children on FSM than its neighboring school? Very impressive- and bucking the trend. What are the actual figures, out of interest?

BertrandRussell · 31/01/2016 12:52

"because different groups within society have different needs"

So, if people of faith need faith schools, then it is reasonable to expect them not to apply to non faith schools? I would be happy with that.

SurferJet · 31/01/2016 12:54

Plenty of services I pay for I'll never access even if I wanted to - at least with faith schools, if you're that determined to 'get in' then you can become a catholic. No one is stopping you doing that.

HelsBels22 · 31/01/2016 12:54

Outwithetgedogs some people were highlighting the fact that they were paying for a service they could not access, I was just pointing out this happens all the time.

Lurkedforever1 · 31/01/2016 12:57

Compare it to the nhs then. I don't need to access many of its services, because dd and I are very healthy. So I hardly feel discriminated against because I can't access eg the special care baby unit, as I don't need it, it's only for those who do. However, if I'd been told in pregnancy, sorry, but only practicing Druids can access local midwife care, you need to catch 3 buses and/ or use the one the local care trust has condemned, then of course it would be discrimination.

BertrandRussell · 31/01/2016 12:58

The colossal arrogance of some Christians never ceases to amaze me.................