To be disappointed by female doctors describing groups of nurses and other allied health professionals as 'the girls '?

[Heartsanddiamonds01]

I regularly hear this from both male and female doctors and although it pisses me off whoever is using this innately derogatory term, it especially grinds and disappoints when it's another women. There is nothing wrong with being called a girl if thats what you are but we are talking about adult women here! I'd never describe a group of professional adult women as such so why do they find it acceptable?

I am an AHP working in the NHS. I get referred to a lot as 'miss' by the patients, which I can cope with, but I'd be completely unimpressed by being called a 'girl.' I'm an intelligent professional woman! But I do work in a 50/50 male/female workforce. Come to think of it, I often hear a group of male workers being referred to as the 'lads,' (never the male doctors though!) never heard a group of females being referred to by their sex though.

YANBU. I remember discussing an issue with the head teacher at my dd's primary school and my toes curling when he said he would get the girls in the office to sort it out. It seemed an inappropriate phrase to describe administrative staff.

I think in some places it is just being used as a female equivalent to 'guys'. Guys and girls. Lads and lasses. I'm sure some people can and do use it in a patronising way but I don't think it's use is always patronising.

its - autocorrect

What is the title given to male nurses in the same position?

Charge Nurse. Or Ward Manager. Or some other gender-neutral term. We don't have Women Police Constables anymore, or 'Firemen' - they are Police Officers and Fire Fighters. Why should nurses be different? I thought nurses were supposed to treat people with respect and equality. Not promote sexism.

OK, so I'm thinking a junior nurse might say "Sister, should I give Mr Smith a wash now?" whereaa if it was a male she would. say "Charge Nurse, should I give Mr Smith a wash now?". Is it absolutely never done to call a female Charge Nurse "Charge Nurse"? If so, that's shocking.

Dear God I've just done some googling and it seems the NHS launched some new senior nurse role/initiative not all that long ago called "Modern Matrons". can't believe they chose a gender-specific job title! How on earth can nurses hope to be respected if even the NHS is suggesting that it's not a job for men?!

And what name do you give to a male nurse who attains "modern matron" status?

(I appreciate I don't ha e the insider info really to know what a Mm is and how s/he fits into the structure but this just seems really sexist and dated to me).

Quick google shows that matron can be used for males as well.

But is it in practice bumbleymummy?
And would the general public instinctively see it asa unisex term?

I always thought of Matron as a gender-neutral term. Perhaps male Sisters should be called Brothers?

That's interesting paeudonym. To me it conjures up Hattie Jaques in the Carry on films.

Etymologically it is definitely feminine, so when dos the transition occur?

When did.

I quite like the idea of a traditionally feminine term becoming the gender neutral choice. If patron can be gender neutral, why not matron?

I like it too, but I wonder if it really is outside medical professionals?

I don't disagree with you, Jessie. Just it doesn't sound feminine to me! Perhaps given long enough, the term Sister might not sound feminine for male nurses. Perhaps because the term is also used for a female sibling, it will always sound feminine?

The same could be said of the word 'feminism'. Although it means gender equality, it is obviously derived from the feminine article, and is presumed to refer to women's rights a lot of the time, rather than rights for both sexes.

I can't think of any other instance where the feminine form became a gender neutral term of art.

There is an example the other way in the US legal profession. Traditionally, in the US, lawyers were addressed in correspondence with "Esq. for esquire after their names. In the 1980s, when women began entering the legal profession in larger numbers in the US, the practice arose almost immediately to use “Att’y” for women, while continuing to use “Esq.” for men because older (mostly male) lawyers insisted on the different use because of the British origins of the term “esquire” as exclusively male. Many women saw this as a devaluation of their status because Esq. had long been used as an honorific in the legal profession. But Esq. was (and is) almost never used in any other context in the US so has never had a strong masculine connotation outside the legal profession, other than at one time all lawyers were male. So many women lawyers made a big fuss about it (I was getting solicitations for donations from my law school with "att'y" after my name), and now Esq is used for all.

Male matrons where I work.
Gender neutral to me.

It's a title though so you might say I'll get the sister, or I'll get the charge nurse or nurse in charge.