to remove DD from nursery because she's happier at home?

[SashaFierce99]

DD will be 4 in July. She's under a paediatrician for speech delay and likely autism. She started nursery school in September and though it's an excellent school, she just isn't happy there. She likes the teachers and will occasionally chat to them but they struggle to understand her because of her poor speech. She has never had to be forced to go in crying or anything but her face lights up when she wakes and it's the weekend. She regularly asks not to go and has never said shes enjoyed anything she's done there. She has no friends and has never played with another child there.

I've arranged play dates with four different children from her class but there is no interaction from her at all. At parents evening her teacher said she plays alone in corners turned away from everyone else. She can share and take turns well with her siblings and will occasionally play with them. She has been off this week as she has an ear and chest infection and has barely been sleeping but despite illness, she has been massively happier than she is when she's at nursery school. She starts becoming withdrawn on Sunday evening and scratches and pinches herself until she bleeds when anxious

I just don't feel she's gaining anything by being there and I know she would be a great deal happier at home. However, I also know she can't be a hermit for the rest of her life. Aibu to consider removing her or should she keep going in the hope it improves for her?

I'm a SAHM for the foreseeable future and planning to delay her entry to primary until 2017 anyway.

Does she have an EHCP and the involvement of the senco?
She may be entitled to some support in the setting and this will continue into school
I don't really see how delaying school till 2017 is going to help
She will join the in year 1, and will have missed reception
The other children will have formed their friendships and she will find it harder to socialise
You also run the risk of not getting the school place you want as the year 1 places will likely all be filled by the children in reception.

Sasha I think you will get better more specific advice on the SN boards on here than in AIBU (not that everyone here is giving poor advice just there is more experience there).

For those of you getting multiple sessions each week of SALT and OT through the NHS or daycare, you do not know how rare this is or how lucky you are. We got offered a block a year (6 weeks of 20 mins session)! This was a child who then started school in a specialist language unit. Our experience is not uncommon! (We paid for private SALT).

Blaeberry It is why we have not returned to the UK. I live in New Jersey, USA. They have an early intervention program which is amazing and very affordable. When we looked at moving back to the UK we quickly shut that idea down because ironically special needs provision here is far better than in the UK. We don't qualify for state assistance for the early intervention program as our taxable household income is over $250k per year and we pay $90 a session which our expat insurance covers. A family with a household income of $100k pays $17 per session. Now DS is turning 3 next month we transition to the school district where everything is paid for by them. We moved last year and the special needs provision was a huge consideration. Our local district has won awards for their work with autistic children and the unit is considered one of the best in the state and country. The teacher who runs the program was awarded state Teacher of the Year last year and came 2nd for the Teacher of the Year for the whole country. We are so lucky that we can afford to live in this school district. Middle income earners are priced out.

The resources available in the UK are the same but you have to fight tooth and nail to get it. As an example, they have reading specialists in the UK but don't tend to start until the child is already behind. I prefer the approach they are taking here which is recognizing that reading will most likely be an issue so lets tackle it head on and give the child extra help from the start so when they fall behind it won't be too far, hard or impossible to recover from.

Honestly, when I saw this morning that the OP said there are 27 children in the class it upset me. Where is the support for this family? It is a disgrace the nursery accepted her as given the needs of the child they should have recognised that this isn't the right environment for her. Any good nursery would direct you to somewhere more suitable or to someone who knows what SN groups are available. It makes me so upset that a child is going through this when there are provisions available that would be so much better. No wonder the OP is upset. I am so lucky that I have been given excellent guidance on where to go and what activities to do. I have not had to ask for it either. The therapists at daycare send me information on classes for DS all the time that think are suitable.

Rant over - its AIBU so I think its ok to rant right?!?

Ranting is ok on AIBU I think and I can see where you are coming from and agree with the problems of the lack of provision. The difficulty is that you are suggesting things to the op which might be ideal but are just not available here. The reason I suggested she posts on the SN boards (SN chat or SN children) is because people on there know the system, how to fight and when it is worth it. It is all very well saying a SENCO should support her and she should get a ECHP but we don't have enough information to say she would get one and it is important she gathers evidence if she wants to apply for one.

Different countries have good things and bad things about them but from what I hear SN provision in the states seems a lot better than here.

I do totally agree with the OP posting on the SN boards. They have been so helpful and there are parents on there who are a few years ahead so know the pitfalls and have hindsight.

What I found was that there is more provision available in the UK than they let on. Based on the research I did they do have provision but you have to fight for it, have people advocate for you (you need an excellent GP willing to go the extra mile) and be willing to travel. The sure start center I called in Liverpool was very helpful and gave me details of places I could go where no ECHP is required to join in. They were extremely helpful about speech therapy groups and resources available online. I've been to a group speech therapy session and thought they were great given what SALT would have given us.

It does bother me that the UK imports the worst policies from the US. For education you think they could have imported their SN provision instead of the tuition fee policies!

want2bsupermum
Yes, the U.K. Is shockingly bad at preventative medicine (massive understatement!).

Blue The services are there in the UK but you have to search for them. Here they have the services available but you have to qualify. You must be in the bottom 2.5% to qualify for services in 2 or more areas (there are 5 areas). It is not easy to qualify but once you do all sorts of help is made available.

There are thousands of children here who don't qualify for help but need it. The parents pay through the nose for it until their child turns 3 and the school district picks up the tab. Our school district has a spend of $26k per year per pupil not including pension costs so they have the resources to help. This is why we live where we live and not in our old town with a spend of $12k per pupil before pension costs. In the town where we lived we heard of horror stories of having to sue the school district to get them to follow the IEP they had come up with but decided not the implement. It was mind boggling that you would need to sue your LEA to get them to follow the plan they had put together. We don't know how long DS will need help so decided to move rather than risk having to endure the stress of legal action.

want2be
Yes, we have to search and fight for them. I think in the UK it's fairly common to take the LEA to court over access to services and over places in schools.

$26k and $12k both sound like massive amounts to me! AFAIK the 'standard' per pupil per year spend in England is £4K.

The $26k/pupil is high but the $12k/ pupil is pretty standard and considered on the low scale for this area because of the high cost of living. Another factor is the schools in the area we are in now get federal funds because about 70% of the pupils are from low income households. The school board redirect funds to support the SN provision because so many of the pupils are from low income households. The spend per pupil who are not SN is much lower. I know the plan they have lined up for DS is costing them about $50-60k a year for the first 2-3 years. The goal is that by 7 he will not be in need of SN help so his pupil cost will drop significantly.

I would say the issues surrounding her being likely to have autism cause more issues than her speech. Even if she could speak more clearly, she wouldn't because she has no interest in other children unless they're offending her with their noise/touching her etc. The difficulty is that she hasn't yet been diagnosed (next paediatrician appointment is next month) and it seems that nursery are slow to react without a diagnosis. Before she started there I discussed her difficulties with the Head and her class teacher and was told she could get one in one help and spend time in the smaller special needs class. However, dd has been in there once and couldn't cope because she likes organising toys and another child with autism liked trashing the room so dd has since been left in mainstream.

Our experience was that the doctors didn't want to diagnose autism too soon because development delays present in the same way during the early years. The two are quite different according to the doctor we see.

The fact your DD has problems with interaction makes me think you should go back to the paediatrician and ask what support is out there to help her overcome this. I would also get onto the SN board and start a thread on there asking what your next steps should be. I cannot believe they would put your DD in a class with 26 other children. What a recipe for disaster. Poor little lovebug.

Forcing a child to say the words is not a one size fits all technique.

Some children simply could not say the words even if you waited hours. It's now always a reluctance to try.

I'm glad it worked for you want2b but it wouldn't work for my DD and such an approach won't work for all children especially with ASD, although I believe in the gentle Hanen approach, not waiting for hours while a child gets upset (although I am glad that worked for you)

*not always

No idea about SN but if it were my DS and he had been there from Sept to Christmas with no improvement, I would take him out and maybe try again next year while looking into alternatives. I don't see the point in any child being withdrawn like that and it sounds like she'd get a lot more out of being at home with you

Hiya fanjo glad you came on here. OP fanjo is one of the good people to get info from. I can't remember how old her DD is but I remember her being older than our DC.

She is 9 :)

Always happy to help.. been there and got the battle scars and tshirt.

Oh OP yes - Hanen. Brilliant resource for speech delay, see if a Hanen course available in your area. If not, you can get the book and do it yourself, but the course is invaluable. Good prompt Fanjo

I would most definitely take her out or at least drastically reduce her attendance.

You can always start her in reception part time when it comes to it, you have that right until Compulsory School Age (term after she is five).

My son has asd. He is Home Educated. He socialises much better now it isn't forces on him five days a week and his social skills ate much better when he has down time in between. Also, asd children won't learn social skills from their peers like other children will.