to remove DD from nursery because she's happier at home?

[SashaFierce99]

DD will be 4 in July. She's under a paediatrician for speech delay and likely autism. She started nursery school in September and though it's an excellent school, she just isn't happy there. She likes the teachers and will occasionally chat to them but they struggle to understand her because of her poor speech. She has never had to be forced to go in crying or anything but her face lights up when she wakes and it's the weekend. She regularly asks not to go and has never said shes enjoyed anything she's done there. She has no friends and has never played with another child there.

I've arranged play dates with four different children from her class but there is no interaction from her at all. At parents evening her teacher said she plays alone in corners turned away from everyone else. She can share and take turns well with her siblings and will occasionally play with them. She has been off this week as she has an ear and chest infection and has barely been sleeping but despite illness, she has been massively happier than she is when she's at nursery school. She starts becoming withdrawn on Sunday evening and scratches and pinches herself until she bleeds when anxious

I just don't feel she's gaining anything by being there and I know she would be a great deal happier at home. However, I also know she can't be a hermit for the rest of her life. Aibu to consider removing her or should she keep going in the hope it improves for her?

I'm a SAHM for the foreseeable future and planning to delay her entry to primary until 2017 anyway.

I think the danger is that in the future, if you do not try and get her speak when she wants something, her frustration will be immense. Way worse than now. Not only that, she will probably be amongst other children who are busy themselves and she will not get attention from them to give her what she wants. Just try. You do not have to give her what she wants at the drop of a hat anyway. Spend a bit of time saying those words! I wish you luck.

bojo you are so right. I took off this last summer, 16 weeks in total, to drill DS. If he wanted something he had to ask for it. It could take up to an hour for him to get something he was asking for because he didn't know how to speak so got totally frustrated. I would repeat and he would end up wailing. After going head to head with him about 4-5 times he finally realized that if he just tried to say the word he would get what he wanted. That got him approximating. From there we honed it. Finally after months his speech is a lot clearer, albeit still difficult to understand because of pitch and tone.

OP - it is incredibly hard to do and even the therapists were shocked at how I kept going, one time it was over 75 minutes. I was so determined to get him to speak when he wanted something and I wasn't going to give in. Once he realized I wasn't going to give in he would use words. This opened up the gate to him learning the phrase 'I want ....'. After he had said that phrase for the first time I refused to give him anything until he said 'I want '. It was very tiring but it has worked. I suggest you get lots of wine in. Thank goodness I wasn't pregnant for the first part of my sabbatical! August onwards was harder because I couldn't drink.

The speech therapy thing is a bit redundant now as she talks loads at home and I can understand her so don't need to push her but others find it difficult to understand her. If she's excited she jumps and flaps and is very high pitched and almost impossible for anyone to understand. She also has 'scripts' she likes to repeat with me and she isn't interested in communicating with others because they don't know the right word to reply.

Her class has 27 children and 4 staff. I do think they leave her to her own devices because she isn't causing them a problem.

My DS had hearing problems and severe allergies - I removed him from nursery - and hand on heart I think it was a really bad decision. Looking back reduced hours or alternative SEN groups would have worked better. Although I did socialise him in other ways - he was put at a further disadvantage by not being with his peers more. He also suffered anxiety.

It is extremely hard to put your child into childcare everyday knowing that she / he doesn't interact like the others. Some children at this age still play solo without having any medical needs - I would second asking her health care professionals for advice on educational needs, it may be the case you can apply for an EHCP to get her some 1-1 help in class. 1-1 helped my son manage his anxiety and build friendships within his class.

My heart goes out to you and your daughter, good luck with whichever path you take!

I think the fact you say you can understand what she says but it's other people who struggle to understand her is a definite no to keeping her at home with you and away from other people, with whom she will need to learn how to interact.

I say trust your instinct...There is no compulsory education at this age...so do what is best for her but do bear in mind how you are going to help her with the transition to school...Have you also considered a c.minder she may do better in a smaller environment.

Sounds like the wrong nursery.

ds is 4 and was diagnosed with autism at 3. I put him in a nursery and it was the wrong environment. He was mostly left to play by himself which he wasn't very good at and had no imagination for play and couldn't play or initiate play with other children, but he was no trouble while doing the same repetitive things with toys . When he became distressed as they tried to make him sit for carpet time and told me I should take him home early instead I took him out and was going to do the same as you plan. However, the Sure Start pointed me towards a new nursery and it's been wonderful.

In the new nursery they have high staff ratios and he did 4 happy hours right away, they knew not to force him for carpet time and over weeks he got closer and closer and eventually happily joined in. It's a lovely, friendly, nurturing environment for him and he loves other kids and is now starting to be able to do some play with them.

Is there a Montessori preschool or nursery near you? We used one of these and it was a very calm structured environment, big focus on working on your own at certain times and a high staff to child ratio.

My first thought was 'a smaller nursery' or at least one more dedicated to her extra needs.

My dd wakes up every day and asks if its a nursery day. She loves her nursery. I know I am lucky there...

Your dd should be getting some enjoyment from her nursery time.

I know all kids are different and like different things, but she should find something fun!

Does she get any 1-1 help? This could make a difference. She may never be the social leader in a group (me neither), but she should get to try things she doesn't have at home. Giant sand pit? Ride ons/balance bikes? Messy painting.

Just because nursery is lovely, doesn't make it the right one for your dd.

At parents evening her teacher said she plays alone in corners turned away from everyone else.

What new nursery has taught me is that they see it as their issue to work on things like this, not just note it and what.... do nothing?! As if the problem is with the child rather than that changes needing to be made in the setting so all children can have the same fun, positive, social and educational experiences.

I think you're right that the current setting isn't working for her but I'm also wondering if this is the right nursery.

Has her hearing been tested OP? Always good to check that out with children this age - even if they appear to hear you. Hearing loss can be quite subtle but really affect them. I'm hoping this was done as part of her SALT assessment?

If I were you my goal would be to think about school options for 2017 and finding a nursery which will make the transition to school as easy as possible.

I wonder if both for school in 2017 and nursery school she would be better off with either very small class sizes and a lot of structure, or in a SEN school?

27 kids and 4 teachers sounds quite chaotic to me! I think that would make a lot of kids, especially with sensory issues want to hide in the corner!

sounds miserable. My DD is not autistic but she has also never enjoyed nursery - I do think that some time away from you is useful but not if she's being left to play on her own in the corner - that's not benefiting her at all. Look for something better and tell them exactly why you're withdrawing her - in fact, I'd challenge them to find a better option for your DD, I'd explain in detail how much she hates nursery now and how poor the provision is (without blaming anyone).

I agree with others who've said that the current nursery doesn't seem like a good fit.

I also agree that improving her ability to communicate with those outside the family circle is essential - be it by speech, signing, PECs or whatever. Trying to communicate with people who don't understand you is tiring, unrewarding and frustrating so of course she won't want to do it but long-term it is the key to functioning in the world and advocating for yourself. Given that you suspect autism I think encouraging communication in any form is key but beyond that I can't advise you - although there are those on here that can.

I completely disagree about having to say a word correctly to be given something. My ds would just not have got anything and would probably have given up trying if we did that! He had to learn to say the words first before he could say them correctly and his receptive language is good.

I agree that this might not be the right nursery for her. She might do better in a smaller, quieter environment preferably with staff with knowledge of ASD.

27 kids and 4 teachers / assistants is a receipe for disaster for children who have Asd.

I would definitely look at different provisions - I would try to ensure the setting has regular special needs training and has a solid idea of what asd is and how it can affect children. When we went to look round one mainstream school for ds the head kept harping on about how they were geared up for asd because they had "secured the perimeters"... if that's there main understanding of asd I despair.

I understand what you mean about the speech therapy but long term I would try to get her back into some speech therapy sessions as it's easier to try to correct words when they are very young. A good speech therapist will do fun things to encourage her to move her mouth more in certain ways so the muscles to make certain sounds develop.

I would also investigate getting an ehcp before she starts school as then you would be guaranteed some form of 1 to 1 for some if not all of the day. Look at the ipsea website for advice and help. People will tell you that you won't get an ehcp but you can apply yourself and have nothing to lose but getting a no.

Does your dd have play therapy op? Or art therapy?

I agree with Rhonda it is essential that you keep working on speech with her, other people need to be able to understand her, not just you. Otherwise all you'll do is transfer her frustrations of not being understood onto everyone else and the outside world which will make it far more difficult and intimidating than it already is.

None of us have to agree or disagree with the speech therapist but she is the expert who knows your child. Discuss these issues with her- seeking a second (professional) opinion if necessary. Many children who can talk but who have SEN still have speech therapy, it really isn't simply as superficial and getting a child to talk.

27 children! This is not the right environment for your DD at all. DS would be totally lost in a group that big. It would just completely overwhelm him.

op if you can cope and you are happy with having her at home, why not!

there is no reason she needs to be there, its obv not benefiting her.

if you do want her to attend a nursery then I agree with looking for one that is actually going to help her more.

these nursery workers may be trained to the hilt in special needs but that still doesn't mean they are effective - with your DD. another person may have same qualifications but be able to help your dd.

i know people with dc with no issues, they just dont want their dc in a nursery setting at all and are happy to keep them off til the day they start school.

do what you feel is best.

YY also see someone else re the speech. again someone else may be able to grasp whats going on with your dc better.

My DD started nursery just before 3 with a severe speech delay and a speech disorder. She didn't settle, wasn't happy and so I took her out. I think you have to trust your gut feeling. She then went to a special needs nursery for 6 months and thrived. Her speech improved, she learnt to socialise and she gradually reintegrated into her original nursery (she is going to the school attached in September) with a 1 to 1 assistant due to now having an EHCP.

I would take her out, look into specialist nurseries and relentlessly pursue an EHCP.

Our local speech therapy provision was awful. I explained this to our GP and asked for a referral to the Nuffield Speech Centre in London. It means a trip down there once every 6 months but their report got us the EHCP. They assess your child in depth with regards to speech and they are also seen by a paediatrician - all completely free on the NHS. They have been outstanding for us and I just wish we lived closer so we could have speech therapy there as well. However, the report from the Nuffield saying that my DD needed weekly speech therapy kicked my local SALTs into gear.

Feel free to PM me X

Please don't abandon the speech therapy. Your DD should have speech that is pretty much understood by a stranger by now. My DD is nearly 4 and her speech is 75% intelligible by strangers and she STILL needs to be in speech therapy. You need to get her in the system to get her the support she needs.

Also aim for multiple sessions of speech therapy each week. It doesn't have to be the therapist doing the exercises but someone with experience who is working alongside the therapist. We have two sessions a week with the therapist but they do one hour of 1-1 with him everyday at daycare too. It's the same with the interaction therapy (think it might be play therapy). We also supplement with art therapy.

Our speech therapist is amazing. She checked his eating in his first session and identified issues. She worked with him on it plus we went to an eating clinic. The clinic is here in NJ but they have an outreach program which is amazing where they just tell you/the therapist what to do. It's not expensive and well worth it in our experience if you need to work on that area.

Whatever you do don't stop speech therapy but I would change the therapist if you don't believe in them being able help your DD.