To not have issues with the dole as a lifestyle choice

[pinksaltlamp]

It's hardly a life of Riley at 72 quid a week but I think it would allow people some time out to develop themselves creatively. It's probably why the UK has and still does punch card above its weight in the arts, especially music. Some of the greatest musicians of the country have spent significant amounts of time on the role that allowed them to create music. Especially as there is a lack of jobs in this country. Maybe inflation, especially house prices, would be less if people had the security to leave jobs and try other things with a guaranteed safety net.

I do think there is a good argument for the citizen wage. Would allow people time out of work, at a very basic level of existence to educate, train and develop themselves. Let's face it most people hate going in to work for a job they don't like but are scared to make a change as most people are only a few pay packets from being g wiped out. I'm rambling on a bit but I do think something like the citizens wage would benefit the country and individuals long term.

Sorry OP I've known a few musicians and artists in my time and I cannot think of one who drew the dole. They did low paid jobs like bar or waitressing or private teaching in the case of a couple of musicians. I think if you are creative you pursue it whatever.

I have no objection to people who cannot work or cannot find a job being able to claim benefits - I think they should get more - but I am not going to subsidise people to sit on their arses under the pretext of being 'creative'.

yeah good idea....all teachers, police, firefighters, nurses, doctors, everyone in social services, HMRC workers and everyone who works for the benefit office must be given time off right now and be given the citizens wage so that they can all sit and paint, write a book or make music....i mean why shouldnt they benefit from this too.....who cares that the country will be at a standstill and society goes downhill.....we are all equals surely!

And why the fuck should I have to go to work and pay taxes so able boddied people can laze about on a citizens wage 'finding themselves??? Are you fucking kidding OP?

Nope, they should work part time. Or be creative in the evenings.

But I like the idea of a citizens wage for all. They would allow people to save rather than get into debt or have that little extra for rainy days. Then benefits could be given to those in need rather than those who are being 'creative'. Would there be circumstances where you could lose your citizens wage? As a punishment?

It's a great idea. We all should be free to work or not. Free housing, free childcare, free university education in fact free everything. But as somebody else said who is going to pay for it.

I live in an area where there is next to no chance for me to get social housing. I work all the hours I possibly can to try to afford a house but the goalpost moves and even a small flat is out of my range. Still I try and I am slowly slowly getting there.

I don't seem to have time to be able to clean and sleep let alone fanny about being creative and finding myself.

I work hard because I have to. I would love someone to explain to me why I should fund someone to sit on their arse be creative

If everyone was guaranteed a house and help with bills and money from the government then I would support it. But they don't. Because most of us have to bite the bullet and work to be able to have the things we need. Paying for someone to write a catchy tune or to paint a nice picture is not that high on my list of things to work my backside off for.

I do a creative job for a living.

For years I did another job alongside it until I built up my name and started earning. It was hard going.

Not going to pay for you to find yourself, sorry. If you have real talent and more importantly grit, you will get there.

What percentage of people on the dole do you think are spending their time on art classes and finding themselves creatively? - precisely the question I have. I certainly believe a lot of them are claiming benefits for not being able to find the job the want rather than accept jobs that are available but I doubt that on £72 a week as OP puts it, anybody can spend a lot of time finding themselves creatively as developing most skills requires a lot more money than that. There aren't many successful creative people, who will tell you that they became successful because of our benefits system.

I believe that benefits should only be paid to absolutely the most needy and truly disadvantaged members of society rather than used to fund all manner of other things simply because taxpayer funds it and there isn't enough to go around for everyone to pursue whatever takes their fancy.

I would much rather the government funded creative types through special initiatives, where places would only be given to the most gifted and talented rather than to every Tom, Dick and Harry, who just fancies a bit of time off to find themselves while the rest of us have to get up at 6 am to get to work in order to fund their pursuit of creativity that may or may not be in them!

Actually some countries have implemented that before. Canada been one of them.
They found that people who stopped working like this then took some time off for a while, and then did a lot of volunteering within the community (so benefitting society as a whole), took their time to learn about a specific subject and then had skills to sell or started their own business ( because they didn't have the pressure of it 'working immediately with a full time wage').
Yes it might also help on some creative subjects like Arts (After all most of the very famous painters never made any money out of their art. It's usually after the death that they have been recognised).
Overall, they found not so many people 'abused' thye system and decided to do nothing at all and the overall it was beneficial for the society as a whole.

I agree with you. I see a lot of people on various formsof social welfare through work and most of them have either got real obstacles to working (dependants, very dependant dependants!!!) or they're kind of unemployable :-/ ie, people wouldn't employ them but those same people who'd turn their nose up at their poor speech, shabby dress, low iq, they'd still stand in judgement of them not finding employment.

I like the premise of a Citizen's Income, but can never understand how it actually works in practice in terms of designating a sufficient amount. If the idea is that it should be enough for a person to live on at a basic standard (the premise being that if you want more than a basic lifestyle you work for the extra money) then how much does it have to be to cover at least basic housing and living expenses? In London, where a room in a houseshare costs at least £500 a month and a one-bed flat more than double that before you even think about feeding and washing and clothing and transporting yourself, Citizen's Income for would have to be getting on for £15,000 a year per adult at least. I can't see how the accounts add up, especially when you see suggested Citizen's Incomes from some political parties of £5,000 or so. £5,000 wouldn't even pay the rent in much of the country.

Thanks wood that's exactly my point.

Cw would end housing benefit, then London rents would fall back probably. The stats on family in London claiming hb are staggering, this all just goes into the pocket of private landlords.

Agree with the principle and the sentiment behind the comment which is laudable, but I would rather there were more money for people to actually do something constructive I.e. Student grants, rather than just JSA which is only enough to sit around, roll your own and begin the inevitable slide into misery and depression. If that's not why you're on JSA in the first place.

I think this particularly because it would be positive action ("society wants you to study, make more of yourself and be happy, thereby creating a happier society") rather than the current approach ("society won't let you starve, because we pity you you feckless twat, but backed up by a belief in personal responsibility and society's general mean spiritedness as cultivated by right wing propaganda we'll only just about stop you starving/ dying of cold. Now fuck off").

Thanks that made me laugh out loud op.

I have no objection to people who cannot work or cannot find a job being able to claim benefits - I think they should get more - but I am not going to subsidise people to sit on their arses under the pretext of being 'creative'.

Yup. I agree with the PP who said the rise in tuition fees to prohibitive levels is doing more to destroy the arts (and would add to the that the increasing prevalence of "internships" in these industries).

Do you know how much it is to spend money on doing creative stuff??!!

I did an art course and I had to spend £££££ on materials, printing, software etc.

Well I work full time, volunteer and have crafty hobbies... Not sure why I should work my arse off to let others who are able to work sit at home pretending to be artists...

Absolutely, people who genuinely can't work should be supported by the state. But not people who just don't want to work. There are better ways of funding the arts, like grants and exhibitions.

TS Eliot was a civil servant. Larkin was a librarian until he retired. Doing a 9-5 job didn't blunt their creativity. I think being on the dole arsing about being all 'creative' is a cop out. If you truly have a genius worth sharing with the world, you will find a way & don't try & blame the toad work for your lack of artistic success.

I cannot believe the naivety of the OP and other posters who think people on JSA can "laze about" and "develop themselves creatively" - when you apply for JSA in order to get your 70 quid you have to do a "full time job search" (35 hours a week) every day and provide proof of this before you get any money. You have to do this on a computer and if you haven't got one, you have to queue in the Job Centre of library. In addition you have to go into the Job Centre on a daily basis and can be sanctioned for petty reasons, no money and told to go to the food bank.

I have a friend who claimed JSA 3 weeks ago and she hasn't received a penny yet. She is called into the Job Centre everyday. They have no found her a job (full time hours) but she will only get £70 - they're calling it work experience, and she's been told she will have to do a full time job search while she's working!!

I don't know what sort of a world some of you people live in - there has never been a tougher time to be on benefits. Some people have mentioned HB - the highest number of claimants for this and tax credits are people in work but on zero hours contracts, or don't have enough hours to make ends meet.

SO not a lot of time left for being creative!

I think the maths industry is suffering as all the bright people go into fs to make their fortune

What's the maths 'industry'? What does it make or do that is suffering because all the bright people go into fs to make their fortune?

Another one here who doesn't know what the maths industry is. And actually I'm reading plenty to suggest that bright finance-oriented grads are now being lured by Google and the like - banks are having to work quite hard (beyond throwing money at them) to entice them to join.

I am a maths teacher, does that mean I am in the maths industry? Hmmmm, big dilemma, should I go into fs to rip people off and make millions (sounds good) or go on the dole so I can find myself creatively? They both just sound so appealing...
I am obviously doing the wrong thing.

Surely this is a wind-up?