sickening documentary

[Idliketoteachtheworldtosing1]

I don't understand why channel 4 have given these low lives a platform to preach their hate!
I'm not sure how many of you watched the jihadis next door but wow I am speechless, these scum are out on Oxford street and are trying to entice young people to join their vile religion. Thank god that most of them have had their passports taken off them but how many like him are there across the country, very scary!

It's not unreasonable to focus on bad apples who specifically link themselves to the serious shit that's going on in other parts of the world, which is important in itself and has a knock-on to the UK. (Though I can't comment on the "giving a platform" issue in this case, as I didn't catch the programme.)

It's unreasonable for anyone to somehow take this as being "representative" of all Muslims.

Oh no petting I'm not saying not to show the documentary I'm just agreeing with i pity's point

Sorry to make it clear I mean just focusing on the bad apples is a bad idea when they are such a small number within the Muslim community. My point is that there's a place for that but there should also be progs about everyone else too.

I thought it was interesting and well made, if nothing that hadn't been done before. Turned into a real coup for Ch4 after the recent activities of Siddartha Dhar in Syria. As pp have said, it was great to see the negative reaction of the other Muslims towards them. It's hard to overestimate how much most Muslims genuinely hate Choudhary and his group.

Obviously it's not representative of all Muslims, but that's how documentaries work - they show the more unusual and interesting. It's like with documentaries about football fans, which are nearly always about hooliganism as opposed to the activities of the vast majority of peaceful supporters. There's no agenda against football fans, it's just that's what makes good TV. It wouldn't be massively interesting watching a family having their half time Bovril at the football in the same way that it wouldn't be interesting watching a peaceful old Muslim man making his Salats.

Out of interest what did you mean by the 'propaganda' comment, Monty?

Lucybsbs, how dare you! My cousin is a priest, working in Africa, and a more caring, genuine, hardworking and kindhearted person you couldn't wish to meet! The wonderful and difficult work he does is humbling, just because he is truly a good person.

You fall over yourselves to defend Muslims and that is fine, but why then does your disgusting attack on priests go unchallenged here?

YABsoU

It wasn't a 'platform', it was a documentary.

It showed a lot of ordinary Muslims challenging them and calling them out while they stood on the street with their little stall performing da'wah.

It showed them saying that all Shias were Kuffir (not Muslim).

It had the guy strolling around Ealing pointing out good buildings to throw homosexuals from and a green to stone adulterers on once the Sharia state is here. Later it showed two of them laughing at horrible Daesh execution videos (while they ate).

It showed them with an ISIS flag and then their hugely aggressive dealing with the police when the police came looking for the flag.

It showed the really impressive members of the Southall Mosque emerging furious and scaring them off from their provocative little protest outside.

It uncovered just how extreme they were. It touched on legal proceedings against them and the difficulties for the authorities.

Not a bad small-scale expose at all, giving quite a bit of insight into the extremists but also coverage to the muslim majority they rile. What more do you want?

I completely disagree about the passports BTW. It sounds pat but it probably IS a bad idea to trap extremists with ill intent permenantly in the UK. A proportion of them would rather be in Syria. I'd be tempted to let them go, I think.

In case that's not clear, I thought they looked pathetic. Their evil was exposed (not that they care) and they were shamed by proper Muslims again and again.

The dogged work of the police in the background came across too.

I watched it and thought it was a good documentary.

It showed them to be what they are. Idiots and losers that are just looking for a reason to feel important. They are hypocritical and full of self importance.

Young people already know where to find their videos of they are so inclined.

I was worried it would be awful for race relations. My best friend is a Muslim man and always worry about his safety when this sort of thing is on.

But I think it showed that the majority of Muslims hate these people with a passion and are standing up to them. Most Muslims hate them and are challenging them.

I am fed up of hearing how Muslims don't challenge those extremists in their community.

The passport things confused me. I think they should put a plane on for the ones that want to leave and take their passports as they get off. I bet most of them wouldn't go when they could. The lack of passport is a convenient excuse.

I don't believe last nights documentary would have made any young person decide to be an extremist. It didn't make it look glamorous or inspiring.

It made them look like a bunch of nasty, evil idiots.

Meh. I knew Christian fundamentalists growing up who weren't much different. There are some scary Jewish fundamentalists who are the same. It's terrifying when they all gang up together.

It is hard to tell how representative they are of muslims generally in the UK from a documentary but I think they are certainly representative of growing numbers, or of a significant number who now feel very free to promote their views.

I know there are many who don't agree with them but I don't think there is any doubt that too many do.

fidel The problem is of the 1200 or so that we have let go to join ISIS abroad, we have not banned a single one from returning.

That main guy seriously needs a job. He's obviously got too much time on his hands.
I may be ignorant but he didn't look like he suffered from chronic fatigue. He was so pathetic stating his dream of a life that involves practising Islam whilst receiving his JSA without having to sign on.
What kind of lame, brainwashed dream is that?

I agree as well about letting them go to Syria. They're a danger to people here and like he said, it might cause them to lash out.

Congratulations you are one of the many people in this country who fall for this propaganda
I suppose you think benefit street was a true representation of people on benefits as well

fidel The problem is of the 1200 or so that we have let go to join ISIS abroad, we have not banned a single one from returning.

Yes, that's the tricky bit, isn't it? For that purpose, at least, it would be better if Daesh were a recognised nation state because then there would be a legal basis to remove the UK nationality of our citizens who go to fight for their army. That would bring its own issues, of course. Not easy.

Is it just me who is disliking people because classes only as Muslim?

To be its putting the disability before the person like say that "downs child" rather that the child who has Down syndrome.

Why are they being described by their religion?

Just doesn't sit well with me at all.

And no I did not watch it, I've seen the spiteful hate all over social media tho!

Is it just me who is disliking people because classes only as Muslim?

How do you mean MsJ?

I thought it was a very good film for the UK Muslim community.

If your comment was to me Dollymixture then I don't think you're right. I don't fall for propaganda. He said those words himself.
The benefits thing is a whole different issue. I know for a fact that there are people claiming for benefits who are not entitled to them.
I know for a fact that there are people who claim to be separated from their partners, claim housing on two properties and rent one out.
I know for a fact there are people who get signed off by gps for complaints and illnesses that don't exist.
Benefit fraud is more commonplace than you think.
Of course I don't tar all benefit claimants with the same brush and I hate programmes like benefit street, but there really are thousands of people claiming benefits that they're not entitled to. It's actually very easy.

Anyway, that's not the point of this thread so I won't go on about it and I don't know if that main guy really was ill or not but he could do with something a bit more productive in his life going on.

Well if you know all these for a fact, report them for fraud!

There are good and bad in any religion just as there are in society.

My experience of Muslims is a good one, I have friends who are Muslim and who wouldn't stand any nonsense from the brigade shown on the documentary.

Likewise my experience of priests is good too, I count a catholic priest among my good friends. A lovely man who only wants to do the best for others. Also worth looking at is Canon Andrew White aka the Vicar of Bagdad who does amazing work with Iraqi and other refugees despite having MS and often not finding it easy to access medication for himself.

This documentary showed nothing more than a group of very extreme youngsters who were being chased off by mosques who want nothing to do with them.

He was so pathetic stating his dream of a life that involves practising Islam whilst receiving his JSA without having to sign on.
What kind of lame, brainwashed dream is that?

I agree Spoon.

In those types of scenes I kept thinking of Four Lions .

I was alternating all the way through between thinking 'evil' and thinking 'Rubber dinghy rapids'.

You have to shine light on evil but you have to laugh at it too.

I think Lulu is also right that they are not a tiny minority. But they are a minority. They can be dealt with.

Sorry that made absolutely no sense,

For me the people are being described by their religion only, as if they are a race and a lot of posts (not only here but on social media) are all negative.

Why does their religion come before them in describing them because of a few nut job miniority.

I'm planning to watch this on catch up.

Because I think it's important to expose what radicalisation in Britain looks like. Epecially as one of those filmed is the new Da'esh executioner.

Now perhaps this documentary won't live up to my expectations.

But even if it doesn't, it's important that documentaries and exposes are made. Not all of them will be comfortable viewing.

Jamie you need to watch it. That's all I can say. You're not describing that programme at all. It was choc full of ordinary Muslims confronting the extremist losers.

MrsJamieFisher I agree with you in general that Muslims tend to be identified as Muslims before anything else but these people wouldn't want to be identified as anything else.
They don't embrace any other identity.