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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU to think my DS teacher needs to think about her language?

53 replies

Rinoachicken · 19/01/2016 17:12

Some background: DS1 is in Y1 and has an assessment coming up soon for ASD, he was referred by school. DH does most dropoffs and all pick ups due to my working hours. By the time I get home at 4 school phones are closed.

So today I get home and find out that DS1 has wet himself at school. DH says that DS1 misunderstood an instruction by his teacher to use the toilet at break times only and so waited and didn't make it in time. DS1 one had apparently told the other Y1 teacher that his teacher had said he couldn't go to the toilet. So at home time she told my DH that DS1 had lied. So used that word.

AIBU to be angry that she is accusing him of lying? For the record I don't think she said he couldn't go to the toilet, I think he just misunderstood. But he wasn't lying. It's like she thinks he was trying to get her Ito trouble or something.

It's not the first time she's used language like this. A few months back she said he had been 'making accusations' about classmates. I called the school and the headteacher answered the phone - he apologised for her words used and I explained that DS misreads his peers, so someone having a joke around, he would see that as being mailicious - so he's not making stuff up its just that he interprets it in a different way.

It seems to me that whatever she said to him, he has obviously misheard/misunderstood since he would not deliberately wet himself (he was very upset about it). So AIBU to think she should think about how she phrased it to make sure she's clearer next time, she should not be calling him a liar, and WIBU to call the school tomorrow about it?

OP posts:

Squashybanana · 19/01/2016 19:10

Could she be on the spectrum herself?? Only half joking...it's just such a common thing for autistic people to do, to say someone is lying because they are not telling 'the truth' (as they themselves perceive it) because they have such poor theory of mind.

Teacher X with poor theory of mind hears 'My child said he wasn't allowed to use the toilet'. Teacher X knows this isn't what she actually said and therefore child is not telling 'the truth'. If you are not truthful you are lying. Therefore child is lying.

Child with literal interpretation hears teacher say 'I want everyone to use the toilet at breaktime' and inteprets 'I can only use the toilet at breaktime', even though this wasn't intended.

What a muddle!

Original poster

Rinoachicken · 19/01/2016 19:14

So have spoken more with DS and it's a bit of both.

He did tell the other teacher that his teacher had said he couldn't go. His teacher apparently replied 'but DS you never asked me!' So he lied and he said he apologised to her for doing so.

When I asked him why he didn't ask her he said it was because she had said 'ages ago' that he needed to go in break times and not in lessons, so he didn't ask because he 'knew' he wasn't allowed.

So now what?!

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Original poster

Rinoachicken · 19/01/2016 19:15

*should read 'so he did lie'

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hiccupgirl · 19/01/2016 19:16

I have a yr 1 child and have taught yr1 as well. It's really common for the class to be told they should only use the toilet at break times to stop the lessons being disrupted constantly. And it's also common for 5-6 year olds to lie about things.

I would maybe have a word with the teacher suggesting that your DS misunderstood rather than lied but I wouldn't be that bothered about the use of the word 'liar'. And I wouldn't agree with it being inappropriate to use the word for a yr 1 child. My 6 year old tell lies when he thinks he can get away with something so is therefore a liar on occasions, even if it's not a nice word to use.

Original poster

Rinoachicken · 19/01/2016 19:19

Forgot to add I have reiterated to DS about the importance of only saying what really happened (which is how he understands truth) and told him that he does need to try at break time, even if he doesn't think he needs to go, but hat if he's desperate he must ask.

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Original poster

Rinoachicken · 19/01/2016 19:19

He always leaves it to the very last second to go, don't know why

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LittleBeautyBelle · 19/01/2016 19:30

When he said his teacher said he couldn't go, he was referencing the time she'd told them before, so he's not lying. I can understand the fact that when he said that, he was thinking in his mind when she told them they shouldn't go during that time "she said I couldn't go". This is a child we're talking about. He did not deliberately lie in that he was pretending to have asked her and she had said no. I get what he meant.

The teacher should realize that too, I would think.

pieceofpurplesky · 19/01/2016 19:31

She shouldn't have called him a liar (or did she just say that to Dh?).

The fact is he did lie and has apologised for it. I don't think the Teacher therefore warrants the comments on here! It is pretty standard to tell children that they should go to the toilet at break time and not in lessons to cut down the number who actually go in lessons!
If you go in op just discuss how this can be stopped from happening again. - work as a team with her

Original poster

Rinoachicken · 19/01/2016 19:33

Yes, I agree. In his mind she had said no...just not that day! DH said she seemed most annoyed that he'd told 'a lie' about her. I'll certainly mention it at his assessment next month.

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Original poster

Rinoachicken · 19/01/2016 19:34

Yeah I'm not going to go in arm I don't think. She's seems quite a defensive person and I don't want her to think I'm having a go at her when really it just needs a bit of clarity. I've given DS that myself so hopefully it won't happen again. If it does then I might have a word with the senco rather than his class teacher

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rosewithoutthorns · 19/01/2016 19:35

So you're upset about a teacher saying your child told a lie? Id be more upset about them not letting him go to the toilet at that age.

Original poster

Rinoachicken · 19/01/2016 19:35

Atm not arm! Stupid autocorrect

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Original poster

Rinoachicken · 19/01/2016 19:37

rose turns out he never even asked. He anticipated a 'no' having been told previously (months?) ago that they should try and go at break time

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JessicasRabbit · 19/01/2016 19:40

Okay, so maybe just make it clear to the teachers that if DS says that someone else said something they need to clarify when it was said. And suggest to DS that he includes the information upfront. For instance, my mum said I wasn't allowed out after 9pm on a school night. Technically that is true, but she said it 20 years ago.

rosewithoutthorns · 19/01/2016 19:43

I'd also work with the school about him maybe not being able to wait to go etc. I'd certainly not "pull the school/teacher up" the word lying.

LittleBeautyBelle · 19/01/2016 19:44

You could turn the thing around and ask her how she thinks your ds feels being called a liar! If she can't see that he meant that she had told him before that he shouldn't go during that time "she said I couldn't" then she's being obtuse. He meant she'd already told him before. He had no intent to deceive, he didn't think to include the caveat "She said three weeks go on the 15th of December that we couldn't go during class time." He said it simply, referring to the time she'd previously said it.

I think it is hurtful to call him a liar. There are people who can't wrap their heads around simple logic and figure out what he meant. Put ourselves in his shoes and it makes total sense. We all do this sometimes, where we aren't precise about something we're saying.

Medusacascade · 19/01/2016 19:45

My son has ASD and will take everything extremely literally. Occasionally his teacher needs to be reminded about her use of language with him by the Senco. I can see how this situation happened. It's a communication difficulty and people who don't have a child with autism probably can't appreciate the scenario here.

As she's the class teacher it may be easier to approach it diplomatically through the Senco.

Jesabel · 19/01/2016 19:47

It's normal for teachers to tell children they should be going to the toilet at break time and not in lessons, and it's is also understandable that some 5 year olds (particularly but not exclusively those with ASD) would interpret that to mean never in lesson times.

I would call the teacher and just remind her that DS takes things very literally and had understood that the rule was never in lesson time, which is why he didn't ask. And just let her know you are concerned that she interpreted this as lying, whereas actually it was just a small child, one who probably finds social communication tricky, misunderstanding the situation.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 19/01/2016 19:50

It should be automatic for a professional to moderate their use of language when dealing with people with comunication or social issues

Original poster

Rinoachicken · 19/01/2016 19:55

I think she forgets...until this happens!

OP posts:

gandalf456 · 19/01/2016 20:14

I have heard of teachers refusing a child the toilet. Again, it could be the child's interpretation but just letting you know you would not be alone for landing in this situation.

decisionsdecisions123 · 19/01/2016 20:17

If you really feel the need to do anything then why not just go to the teacher in a very casual way and say sorry for the whole incident, its just that he keeps everything in his head for ages and takes things so literally that he was just remembering the time he was told they could only go to the toilet in break times.

My son came home from school one day and told me that when he went for dinner that day one of the teaching assistants told him he was lying about the type of food he could eat (he had asked for a certain option which is the one he has every single day!) and the dinner lady for some unknown reason said he was lying and that he never has that option. He replied that yes, he has it every day and his friends next to him backed him up but the teaching assistant and dinner lady then told him that he had better not be lying and they would be going to the office to check up on it! I was pretty fuming when he told me and was ready to go in and complain but I didn't bother and I was over it by the next day. My son wasn't bothered by the next day either. I hope they felt silly when they went to the office to check though I suspect they didn't actually bother.

mygrandchildrenrock · 19/01/2016 20:18

Just as an interesting point of interest, not all children/people do lie. My middle son is on the spectrum and will actually say, 'I would rather not answer that' than lie. He is much older than the OP's son, but has said he doesn't understand the concept of lying because 'there is only one truth'. The 'one truth' is usually his perception of things but he certainly doesn't lie!

AlwaysHopeful1 · 19/01/2016 20:20

So he hasn't actually asked her which does make her version the truth. Although the word liar is negative, she hasn't lied.

echt · 19/01/2016 20:48

OP, if you're that bothered about language, you need to note that the teacher did not call your child a liar, she said he lied. There is world of difference and it's one teachers are routinely told to pay attention to, e.g. bullying not a bully; silly behaviour, not a silly boy/girl.

Describe the behaviour, don't call names, and that's what the teacher did by your account.

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