To think taxpayers shouldn't pay for people to learn English?

[angelos02]

£20 million to be spent on this. If you move to a country you ensure you can speak the language surely? It is being spent on female muslims not that I think this is relevant.

Also, this hasn't been mentioned yet, but:

English is not an easy language to learn.

It is totally unphonetic, grammar rules are often quite random and what you may be taught in the classroom bears little resemblance to colloquial versions people use.

Then, you have the issue of people being impatient and rolling their eyes at you when you're trying to speak English, because you should speak English fluently already.

A bit of empathy wouldn't go a miss, sometimes.

Please let us know what foreign language is "easy"?

I should qualify my posts by saying that there are plenty of English people who behave in a similarly shitty manner. Millions of them. And that's wrong, too. But when it is a clear disregard for, and resentment of a system that's different to what you have come from, then I think it's relevant.

Yabu - but agree we should move resources to teach English rather than so much on interpreters and leaflets and websites etc in a gazillion languages (although we should give initial help to genuine refugees)

Pipistrella I agree with you - if you are going to live somewhere long term it is "polite" for want of a better word to integrate!

On the other hand it is really horrible to feel you are "not allowed" to speak your mother tongue with fellow native speakers unless its behind closed doors.

I haven't seen a native English speaker in I don't know how long... many months, unless I count my half English children :o I live and work in German but I speak English to my kids, always, always, always and would hate them to be like the girl in DD's school whose mother is English but won't speak English back to her and has a German accent and makes lots of grammar mistakes when she has to use English (as a foreign) in English lessons at school.

People should learn the language of the country they live in, but should not be shamed for speaking their native language in public either - it is a sad, lonely, alienating thing not to pass your native language on to your children properly, fluently, or not to be "allowed" to speak it in public because other people are too ignorant and paranoid and self centred to cope with not understanding private conversations which are nothing to do with them.

• as a foreign language - word language escaped somehow!

I think it is fantastic that they still spoke their language and did all these things together. It was the resentment they seemed to have for me - for anyone English - and the way that anyone not from their own community was somehow perceived as an enemy.

I have no idea of their motives for coming here. I think it was so that their son could have better prospects, though their daughters were left behind in their home country. In many ways it was admirable, but there was barely any integration, just an awkward co-existence.

Pipistrella that guy taking your bike and dropping cigarettes in your garden was absolutely nothing to do with what language he spoke! Why did you let him keep your bike? He sounds like an unpleasant idiot from your last post but presumably he was being unpleasant in English when he asked you to give him your bike? It seems you are associating two unrelated things - unpleasant person who demanded your bike happened to spend time speaking another language. Correlation doesn't equal causation...

I know what you are saying but I think there was a crossover in that situation, have tried to explain - not very well, sorry.

I let him use the bike because I felt afraid of him, and sorry for him and he had to get to work, and I assumed he had few resources. It wasn't true; he had a huge number of friends who would help him out. He asked me because he blamed me for having his car towed away.

poster GruntledOne Mon 18-Jan-16 10:38:15

I was born here and I am not in getting any welfare I am not seeking to get a visa

I can work dispite my poor grammar
And have done since I was 15 and when I speak what I say is understood I don't have to live with in one area of the country to enable me to only come across people who speak the same laguange

I can access support despite my spelling and grammar in English I can engage at the bank and at my children's school
I can drive and have passed my test in English

All these things one would not be able to do if you cannot speak English

If you can't speak the language you are of virtually not use to the uk and more likely a drain even a simple trip to the GP become and huge expenses ss and circus if yu can't speak English

Like a lady whom l lived next door to had to knock our door at 3 in the morning and put us on the phone to the 999 operator after they were attacked because they couldn't speak English

Yes, perhaps they could go to their local library to learn English.

If they still have one.

If not , they could travel however many miles it is to the nearest library using the cheap and plentiful public transport which is so commonplace and accessible outside the capital. Oh no, hang on...

Providing support which helps refugees, immigrants and asylum seekers access the services to which they are entitled saves the country money in the long run, as money is not wasted on inaccessible services and people end up with more opportunities to become active and productive members of British society. And women who already suffer from cultural or religious restrictions or discrimination should be supported to become independent, not crushed further due to lack of language opportunities. Though TBH I'm not convinced that DC isn't just reinstating services which existed before and have been cut- and I do not support language 'failure' as a justification for deporting people who would otherwise be entitled to live in the UK.

The cigarettes and the license - both examples of not giving a shit about the rules here.

Anyone wanting to live abroad should really check what is required and pay some respect to that. Not just get angry because they were dismissive of it and then got into trouble.

And just because other countries tolerate English people not learning their laguange that's their look dosent mean we should put up with this

It causes huge strain on services the police , justice , health , education constantly haveing to provide interpreters

Disappopinted by the lack of comments re English lessons in school.

Being funded by the taxpayer, n'all.....

British expats don't claim benefits and are not usually working age. They do not take from the Spanish ecomony and many of them have private healthcare. Wealthy expats make jobs for Spanish people. Younger Brits maybe loutish, but they don't tend to support sharia law or dispise Spanish values. (when they have sobered up!) The drunken Brits go home after a week of spending lots of money in Spain.

Pipistrella there are plenty of white British people driving without a licence/ insurance and dropping litter to be honest - I think you experienced a nasty man who happened to speak another language (but was clearly able to speak English).

I'm not sure if other recent posts are agreeing with the OP or with the policy of offering free English lessons? Presumably most people are in broad agreement that free or heavily subsidised English lessons are very obviously a good investment, in the same way free state education is generally - the whole country benefits from people who are educated and able to read, write, do arithmetic and communicate with those they come into contact with and with health and education service providers and officialdom...

*ReallyTired" your post about British ex-pats is not actually true at all - there are some wealthy retired ex pats. There are a lot who have run out of funds and a lot who are abroad to work.

Pretty much every British ex-pat in German with kids claims the very generous Kindergeld and Elterngeld (far more generous than the UK's child benefit and Statutory maternity pay and not means tested, so some very well off British ex-pats I know were claiming almost €1000 a month in child related benefits perfectly legally - they didn't even need it, but were entitled to it, so claimed it, as well as free childcare places available to those without a German speaking parent)

OP isnt a journo. He is a right wing bloke winding the laydees up.
It's been going on for ages

[http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/19/-sp-thousands-britons-claim-benefits-eu]] There were at least 30,000 British people claiming benefits in the EU according to this article ReallyTired

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/19/-sp-thousands-britons-claim-benefits-eu link fail

Or are we pretending there isn't the 'cultural' reason of certain parts of society not wanting women to integrate with Western society?

Gosh, even Dave acknowledged it may not be the women's choice.

(Although why 'Muslim women' have been singled out, I don't know.)

YABVVVU, in any case.

I hope at the same time, these women are also given access to knowledge of the laws we have that protect their rights as women and UK citizens

^ I get the impression that this is the wider meaning behind this.

If people are really willing to integrate, they should learn by themselves, there are enough resources and help in this country

Alice many women cannot do this even if they want too, they are being subjugated and controlled. This sends out a message to the men I suppose really or anyone who is stopping them from integrating, Its sort of by passing them, which is a good thing.

Helping all women understand the language and more importantly the laws, of the land they live in is a good thing. If a lady has come from a different country she may not even begin to understand the freedoms that are there to enjoy,compared to where she came from.

As for stopping extremism though, I am not sure it will make much a of difference.

"So traumatised people whose homes have been bombed out and relatives have been tortured and killed should starve if they don't rock up to English classes within a couple of weeks of arriving here? Really?"

Yes, it's called tough love. Making class attendence a condition of receiving benefit is not unreasonable. Plenty of migrants can already speak good English. Many have degrees. A little bit of help would help them utilise existing skills.

Familiarisation classes would help migrants know how to register with a doctor, schools, and learning about British culture as well as an English assessment. It would help migrants make friends and their own support network. If a Syrian woman or her family is suffering post traumatic stress she needs to know where she can practical help.

tb has struggled living in rural France with language issues. Culturally the French and the English are closer than the Syrians and English.

neither alice nor any other posters who are anti this initiative are giving logical reasons for why they don't think it is a good idea, other than 'oh they should learn by themselves' (while failing to acknowledge why many can't do that).

OP is sadly not a journo or troll, they have an extensive posting history.

Alicewasinwonderland Mon 18-Jan-16 10:49:51
Please let us know what foreign language is "easy"?

Spanish is comparatively easy to English. As is Italian, and to a lesser degree French. Even German, despite its extra cases and third gender of nouns is easier than English.

It takes a lot longer to reach B2 level in the international language framework (often level required for students to apply for jobs in England and uni courses) than it does to reach B2 in Spanish, for example.