To think taxpayers shouldn't pay for people to learn English?

[angelos02]

£20 million to be spent on this. If you move to a country you ensure you can speak the language surely? It is being spent on female muslims not that I think this is relevant.

[MumOnTheRunCatchingUp]

I heard this on the news.... Wonderful! The. I heard the closing words that they are considering not giving citizenship if they dont comply! So what? The women get sent back?

[BaronessEllaSaturday]

It has been mentioned how much translation services costs the NHS but what about Education how much does it cost when you have children starting school who do not speak english, how disruption does it cause, The more I think about it the better the idea sounds. Money well spent if it works.

[ReallyTired]

Some people really struggle with languages. Are you going to separate a mother from her children because she cannot pass an English test? Insisting on attendence of English classes is fair enough, but rules have to have some compassion and make allowances for disabilities or learning difficulties.

What should happen to a hopelessly dyslexic asylum seeker? Or a deaf person? We need some compassion.

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

(actually ex pat is two words but you know what I mean )

[LyndaNotLinda]

There used to be loads of funded free English courses in the UK but this government cut the funding for them. Many of the teachers moved abroad because there was no work for them here.

I should imagine reintroducing the courses will cost a lot more than if they'd never been cut in the first place. Direct your ire at Cameron for that, not for helping women to integrate and giving them access to facilities and services that women who can speak English can access

[januarybrown1998]

I'm not really seeing the relevance of British ex pats in Spain?

It's trotted out predictably whenever anyone tries to debate integration.

Regardless of the blinding economic and societal differences between the two situations.

It's trite virtue signalling from lefties who are fabulously unaware of the how hilarious they are.

Cross it off your bingo card.

[BoboChic]

Expatriate (expat) and immigrant are not synonymous.

I'm an immigrant, not an expat.

[GiddyOnZackHunt]

Chaz no it is a word. Well expatriate is the word and expat is the truncated version.

[MrsGradyOldLady]

But I don't think anyone on this thread IS an ex pat in Spain who thinks everyone should learn the local language except for them?

Of course British people should also learn the local language of the country they've chosen to live in but whether the Spanish authorities do or do not encourage integration is really a seperate issue?

I do think it's a good idea but I wouldn't have thought 20 million would be enough unless they're just talking about giving everyone a free language cd. It's a good start though.

[TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams]

Translation services cost the NHS £23m annually. This is only the NHS so presumably there are other costs associated with other governmental departments.

Never mind the impact on education and attainment for migrant children if their parents can read their homework also.

No brainer. Probably need to spend twice that.

[MrsGradyOldLady]

I really don't think David Cameron will be "sending people back" who can't speak English. How many years did it take to deport that hate preacher with a hook?

[IPityThePontipines]

January - I think it's a fair comparison to make.

Or do you think the Spanish authorities in the Costas don't have to spend anything extra on translation and interpreters due to the sizeable population, who despite good finances and time on their hands, speak no Spanish.

[LittleLionMansMummy]

Is that figure correct Tread? Going back a few years, it cost one quite small, predominantly rural police force close to £1m. There are 44 police forces in England, Wales and Scotland. I suspect the figure for the NHS is much higher. I agree wholeheartedly with the point you make though.

[Gobbolino6]

Worth every penny IMO.

[Cavaradossi]

The non-Spanish-speaking British expats living in Spain for decades is pertinent as an example of how affluent people with every opportunity to learn the language of the place they have chosen to live nonetheless seem not to manage it - unlike many immigrants to the UK, who are poor, have limited or no internet access, and very limited knowledge of available services. I originally mentioned them because the OP banged on about it being an immigrant's 'duty' to learn the language of the place to which they are immigrating. I am simply pointing out that, if people with plenty of time and opportunity don't manage to learn a new language, why is it so difficult to get your head around how much harder it would be for a recently-arrived Muslim woman from a conservative culture, who may have no contacts outside her immediate family, and no knowledge of her rights and opportunities?

Obviously the two situations aren't comparable. It isn't considered fundamentally important that British expats in Spain should integrate, and they're clearly a political irrelevance from the POV of the authorities. Whereas the threat of radicalisation in the UK is making helping immigrant women to integrate linguistically important.

[treesarebrown]

If women are not able to leave the house and contribute economically they tend to have more children which contributes to overpopulation. If they can contribute economically they are less likely to rely on government benefits and may even build or contribute towards an export business which could increase our GDP.

[IHeartKingThistle]

I teach Adult Literacy.

First of all, there are already free English and Maths courses across the country for anyone with low skills. The Government made English and Maths courses up to and including GCSE free a few years ago now. I'm pointing this out for the people wringing their hands about foreigners being offered everything and poor old English people not getting anything .

Secondly, I see women every day with English as a second language who are desperate to integrate but can't due to their poor English. ESOL courses are generally not free. We are literally trapping them at home if they cannot afford classes.

If it is true this plan can't come soon enough. There are thousands of wonderful people here who want to do well. We can learn a lot from them.

[januarybrown1998]

It isn't considered fundamentally important that British expats in Spain should integrate, and they're clearly a political irrelevance from the POV of the authorities. Whereas the threat of radicalisation in the UK is making helping immigrant women to integrate linguistically important

^
This.

[CocktailQueen]

I don't think that immigrants or refugees always have time to do an English course before they flee their country.

Also, teaching immigrants English will help them integrate, help them help their dc at school in Britain, and help them get back into the job market. Sounds like a good idea.

What would you suggest as an alternative??

[babybat]

OP - have you not considered that many of these immigrants are also taxpayers? It's simply not the case that 'taxpayers' = me and people who look like me, and 'people who look a bit foreign' = a drain on the public purse.

YABU. English language classes will save the UK economy far more than they will cost.

[knobblyknee]

It depends. If its being spent on refugees I dont have a problem with it, they are fleeing Fascism as the Jews did on the 1930's.

[Sallyingforth]

No doubt I will be called racist for this but I think it's revolting that in any home the women should be kept in the home to serve the men, not speaking or reading English, and having postal votes filled in for them by the man of the house. And that does happen, in my personal experience.

[Sandsnake]

This can only be a good thing. Lack of English in women of certain immigrant backgrounds helps to cause isolation. It can also make it near impossible for these women to get help if they are experiencing issues such as DV as a family member (almost certainly male) will attend things like doctor's appointments with them as a translator. Decisions with regards things like their children's health / schooling are also taken out of their hands if they can't attend / understand relevant meetings / correspondence. I also don't think that it's healthy for society to have groups of adults who are unable to integrate as they can't speak the language.

However, I think there should be some sort of expectation that immigrants - in some situations - should make an effort with the language before they come here. I am absolutely not referring to refugees / asylum seekers. But I don't think that there's anything unfair in asking for a minimum standard of English before granting something like a spousal visa, in order to help avoid the problems that I mentioned above. There are still a lot of young women brought to the UK from Pakistan / India / Bangladesh for arranged marriages to British Asian men. Being young and suddenly thrown into a very, very different culture to their own with a husband they may barely know must be hugely difficult. Surely knowing some English would help them a bit. I see this as more of a feminist issue as opposed to something anti-immigration.

[Mistigri]

Funding English lessons improves integration, increases employment prospects, and above all it's valuable for the next generation - children do better if they have parents who can communicate with teachers. It makes absolute economic and social sense for the host country to fund this.

A lot of countries do have a language test for immigrants seeking naturalisation (citizenship) - I will need to pass a language test if I want to take French citizenship despite having lived and worked in France for two decades. (My husband will too and he's a French-English by profession!)

If you have a language test the bar needs to be set not too high (here in France the required standard is European level B1 which is a long way from fluency but sufficient for basic communication) and there needs to be an age cut off (older people struggle more with language learning) and discretion for immigrants with disabilities.

I'm left wing as they come by Mumsnet standards, but I still believe that all permanent immigrants should be required to acquire basic communication skills in the host country language. This includes the many hapless Brits in France and Spain who have just about enough French/Spanish to order a beer in a cafe.

[maybebabybee]

No doubt I will be called racist for this but I think it's revolting that in any home the women should be kept in the home to serve the men, not speaking or reading English, and having postal votes filled in for them by the man of the house. And that does happen, in my personal experience.

I really don't think anyone's said differently, have they? In fact, that's partly why most of the people on this thread are in favour of this initiative.