To feel this was a reasonable punishment for DS 16?

[needastrongone]

Here is what happened.

DS and his mates, usually a good, solid, sensible bunch of lads went out today to mess about in the snow. I am not sure how many of his mates were there, as I was out, and which exactly of his mates were involved as he refuses to say and grass folk up.

Anyway, they saw fit to run into someone's front garden and kick over the snowmen that the kids had made. To put absolutely correct, DS and 2 other mates stood on the drive and laughed and did not do the kicking, but I see no difference as he was involved and did not try to stop the action.

We live in a village, god knows how they thought they would get away with it. Anyway, I've found out. I'm pissed off that he thought it was ok to trespass and destroy someone elses property and upset some kids. I've told him this, but haven't ranted and raved.

He has been round to the house and apologised to the family in question for his part. He's also had his gadgets confiscated for the week. The two other parents who had DS's that stood and watched have done exactly the same, although this is coincidence, not something we agreed. I don't know about the other parents, I am not sure who else was involved.

Do you guys think this is reasonable? He's a generally good, solid kid, I promise!

[differentnameforthis]

he's nearly an adult. If people think he's a knob that's his look out.

Except he's not an adult, and certainly isn't making choices that reflect being "nearly an adult"

Punishment sounds good. Needs a good chat about not following pack mentality, because next time it could be breaking & entering or worse.

At 16 he should be capable of deciding what is a good idea or not. He isn't a small child who doesn't know wrong from right.

He watched someone kick over a snowman and he laughed. He didn't kick over the snowman, he didn't rob a granny, he stood on a drive and had a laugh. But spectating & laughing is encouragement, and if a serious crime was committed, then he would be prosecuted too.

[TakeMeUpTheNorthMountain]

But a serious crime didn't happen. He watched someone kick down a snowman.

For fuck sake.

This place gets worse.

Heart sore my hole.

Prosecution? You can't what if this. I'm sure the kids knows the difference between watching someone kick some snow and some one kicking a granny.

Cop on to yourself.

[nooka]

The OP says that the snowman belonged to older children. I'd be more concerned about going onto someone else's property and vandalising their stuff. But he was only watching. It's all just a bit of stupidity though. The OP seems to have managed it well and I expect he'll think twice another time.

It would be interesting to know whether the children who actually did the kicking have any punishment.

[PiperChapstick]

I think the punishment is reasonable and especially going round to apologise was a good idea.

People don't half overreact on MN. Casting him off as mean spirited and saying he should buy new toys/babysit the kids/do chores - he's 16 and went with the crowd, all kids do stupid shit sometimes and I distinctly remember going along with things I didn't want to do for fear of being called a loser if I didn't. The punishment is fine.

[PiperChapstick]

ARF at talking of serious crimes and prosecution. Sometimes I picture the things people say on MN as one of my friends saying them, and I honestly think I'd piss myself laughing and tell them to stop being such a silly twat

[BackToTheNorth]

Jesus Christ - what is he being punished under? The law of joint enterprise?

[Audreyhelp]

Oh for goodness sake they were being young, thoughtless and having a laugh.

They all get carried away it was only a snowman.

He is sixteen responsible for his own actions.

The comment about breaking and entering made me laugh out loud I have now managed to wake husband up he's not happy.

[BadLad]

Bring back hanging!

[SunsetSinger]

I think if the worst thing my DC does at 16 is laugh when someone kicks over a pile of snow, I'll be pretty delighted. The whole serious talk and punishment thing seems a bit OTT to me. I would certainly tell my child that they shouldn't go onto someone else's property, but the boy in the OP didn't, did he?

I can imagine how it went, they were mucking about in the snow, throwing snowballs, jumping and rolling around, they saw the snowman, kicked it over, giggled, carried on. Snow brings out a joyful desire to play around, be physical, touch it, throw it. I think they were probably just playing about, not sitting back with a pinky in their mouths cackling about how they had made a child cry. They probably weren't even thinking about that.

I really don't think it's wise or necessary to come down like a tonne of bricks over something so stupid and trivial, that he didn't even do.

[Throwingshade]

I can't believe people think this was a 'nasty act' and that this kid needs to read poetry in order to understand the depth of his crime!

I bet my life it was a spur of the moment, laugh yourself silly thing with no malice or even intent involved.

Jesus, I'm having one of those MN is a parallel universe moments!

[fascicle]

BertrandRussell
I am actually shocked by many of the posts on here. Do people not feel there is any need to parent their 16 year olds?

Do you think more punishment equates to better parenting? OP's son has apologised in person - that's a pretty big thing to do and directly relates to the incident. No doubt he understands what he did wrong. In my experience, overly harsh punishments create resentment and the focus on what went wrong/changing behaviour is likely to become lost.

[Audreyhelp]

I agree fascicle. Pick your arguments with teenagers and let them go a bit at 16 and grow up on their own.

Let's hope the police aren't called and the evidence all melted.

[BertrandRussell]

No I don't think punishment is necessarily the right route in this case- it it's the glossing over the unkindness and mean spiritedness of the act that I find depressing. All the "oh, that's what teens are like" stuff. And the worrying juxtaposition of "They don't think- they just go along with the crowd" and "You can't do anything- he's nearly an adult"

[needastrongone]

Thanks all. Some of your comments since I last posted have made me .

The family in question have appreciated and accepted the apology and moved on. So have we. We try to parent in an appropriate and fair manner, most of the time anyway!

I have given DS back his gadgets. Thanks for the thoughts on this. Useful perspective which, on reflection, I agree with re age and appropriateness.

He is a good kid. They are all good kids to be fair. In my view, they just did something thoughtless. Teenagers tend to do this I find.

I kind of resent the idea he's mean spirited or likely to beat up a granny or deal crack as the next step in his life of crime. But it's an open forum, so fair call.

I also wonder if I might have had a different opinion when my DC were small, parenting teens is different to parenting small children. Some of the comments on here may or may not reflect this.

Thanks all

[needastrongone]

I have talked to DS about the unkindness of the act. We have discussed how that might have made the kids feel. He has apologised. I am leaving it there.

[wanderings]

Would it have been a month's confiscation and grounding if he had shoplifted a carrot to make a snowman, or stolen the coal needed for the buttons? "But I took it from the middle of the pile, so it's not stealing, it's mining!"

I think a week's confiscation of gadgets is OTT and irrelevant to the crime. At that age I think it would prolong everyone's ill-feeling, and might bring on temptation to make the crime fit the punishment. The apology was just right. Long before I was 16 I used to think it was unfair that parents were allowed to "confiscate" whenever it suited them, but if I removed an annoying gadget from a younger sibling it was "stealing", no matter how much I thought they deserved it.

(But I am still resentful about some childhood punishments: when I was once punished over a misplaced snowball, I showed my displeasure by then refusing to play in the snow that winter at all, in case I committed the crime of the century. It was almost fun watching my parents trying to decide whether to relent on the punishment. Nobody won from that incident at all.)

[wanderings]

X post with OP, started typing a while ago.

[LaContessaDiPlump]

Very sensible op.

I am amused by all the Duffy hate though

[ComposHatComesBack]

I am amused by all the Duffy hate though

I've always thought her poetry was pedestrian and written with one eye on a GCSE syllabus.



A couple of friends worked at an evening event where she was speaking. She was extremely demanding and rude and treated 'the little people' she came across atrociously.

La Duffy demanded a very specific meal at the last minute and threw a huge diva strop when it wasn't quite what she wanted. After she'd spoken she then told (not asked) gallery staff to buy her some liquid for her e-cig. Nowhere had any, cue another tantrum.



I think - just like Van Morrison - there are people who like Carol Ann Duffy and people who have met Carol Ann Duffy.

[Orange1969]

I like CAD - loved her poetry ever since buying a copy of Standing Female Nude. She still is poet laureate, by the way.

Disappointed to hear of her diva behaviour - there's no excuse for that.

She is done to death at GCSE but I don't think she writes poetry in the hope that it will be used in the syllabus.

Re the 16 year old son and snowman - what a horrible thing to do. Really mean. At least he has apologised.

Kids do some awful things in the heat of the moment.

[Janeymoo50]

Sounds fine to me, wouldn't have taken gadgets off him, too old. Oh, plus a box of Haribo for the kids (awaits "they might have allergies" comments).

[LaContessaDiPlump]

Oh I have no opinion on her, I just find the vitriol funny to listen to!

[BertrandRussell]

There's always somebody who knows somebody who witnessed divaish behaviour from successful women.

The World's Wife is fantastic.

[ComposHatComesBack]

If you want to call me a liar go ahead - I have no reason to make it up, nor do my friends.

They've worked at events where plenty offamous people have spoken, most were fine, some were lovely, some were horrible. If you want to even the gender balance up, the explorer Ranolph Finned was a twat of the highest order too and threw a similarly spectacularly childish tantrum.