Charged £90 for being 3 minutes late to collect children from nursery

[Justastorminabcup]

3 minutes late! I thought I was on time. nobody said anything when I arrived, they just sent me an invoice in the post.

I can understand that they need a system to prevent parents regularly being late. They have a business to run and staff to pay etc, but £90!?! For three minutes! How can they think this is reasonable???

I've used this nursery for 4 years and have never been late before.

AIBU to be utterly shocked that a childcare establishment who must know that many parents struggle to be able to afford daycare for their children could feel it is acceptable to charge such a fine? Is this normal? Would other care providers do this?

No what happens is they don't get to come back as they would have a debt my nursery ran a no debt nursery so you had to pay in advance

I think it's awful people's views on this there are of course accidents and acts of gods but more often or not there are regulars

There was one mum on Mondays when her son came I wouldn't get home before 7:30 I would always be late home and had to pay my sitter extra so wasn't even better off for having stayed late

I've only read up to page three so apologies if this has already been covered - try this interesting article on the enforceability of penalty clauses in contracts.
ipdraughts.wordpress.com/2011/07/13/whats-so-bad-about-penalty-clauses/
In the OP's case she is a consumer and presumably didn't have an opportunity to have her lawyer negotiate the nursery contract on her behalf so the last paragraph is especially relevant.

Looks likely to be unenforceable to me and anyway may be well worth the OP wondering aloud to the nursery whether it could be so disproportionate as to be unenforceable. Once OP has sowed seeds of doubt in their mind about their contractual position they may be willing to overlook the matter on this occasion.

I would be very cross still about £30 for 3 minutes lateness.

Especially in the circumstances you describe - we have done a lot to support the nursery over the years such as charity sponsorship, donating toys, old gardening equipment for the allotment and craft items etc.

For me the goodwill and feeling I had towards those caring for my child would be tarnished. I would be looking at another nursery or childminder tbh... that is unless this particular nursery is absolutely brilliant with your dc and you would be loathe to move them or there are no vacancies at other nearby nurseries.

It is not on to charge parents £90 for 3 minutes lateness, especially those parents who are usually and consistently on time or early to collect their children. And then to graciously offer you a reduction of £60...

camtt
The nursery may wonder aloud if they actually want the custom of someone argues along those lines.

Still a shocking fee. I was once over 15 minutes late (just the once). Playschool asked me if I was OK. And assured me DD1 had been fine.

they might redbinneo, but if the argument is correct it might be in their best interests to listen and amend their contract rather than ripping off consumers

Haven't read the thread but this sounds like an unenforceable 'penalty clause'. A contract term is a penalty and therefore unenforceable if:

• its purpose is to punish or deter, as opposed to compensate for losses the business might suffer as a result of contract breach; and
• at the time the contract was entered into, £90 represented an unconscionable and disproportionate amount, relative to the amount of loss the nursery was likely to suffer if the contract was broken.

It is more likely to be a penalty clause where, as here, the term was presented as non-negotiable - a set of standard business terms - take it or leave it - by a business to a consumer (as opposed to another business).

Some of these nurseries are horribly strict!

DD used to attend a local one. They charged £5 per every 5 minutes late. But late was beyond 6pm. We often would turn up at 5.58pm. As long as we were at the door before the stated pickup time, then we were not late.

One time I was late because my car wouldn't start. I had left sufficient time to drive but not sufficient time to walk (not knowing there was a mechanical problem). I rang them and explained, then legged it as fast as I could to get there. I was 10 mins late, but they waived the fee in this instance.

For two children, if the nursery charges 45 for the first 15-min block of lateness, the fee doesn't seem so exorbitant. If it were comparable to babysitting costs who would pick up their kid on time?

Have to say I'm Team Nursery here.

For them to be quite so strict on it I'd bet they either have a problem with people being continually late so have taken a complete zero tolerance stance or they have a long waiting list so can easily afford to be strict.

camtt The OP doesn't have to pay the charge, but then again the nursery are under no obligation to care for her children either so it's a choice that has to be made.

Also I wouldn't let the fee spoil my feeling toward the daily staff or the care they've given my child because I'd be a pound to a penny the decision on the charging policy is nothing at all to do with the care staff.

I also don't think the fact the nursery wasn't closing at that point is relevant at all. I pay for my dc to attend nursery from 9am until 12.30pm. If I don't arrive for pick up until 12.40pm the fact the nursery is open until 7pm is neither here nor there - I'm late. Their staffing ratios and planning, and places for other children, is based around him being there 9-12.30pm and if I'm late I could impact that.

I would plan the time it takes to actually leave the building into my travel time, as surely anyone leaving any workplace would. So if the nursery closed at 6pm I would expect to be leaving at 6.10pm if I was closing up. We would not get the child's coat on if we had not been contacted by the parent to say when they would arrive. We would often stay in the room the child was used to being in. By the time a parent has arrived, talked to a member of staff about the child's day, got the child ready to leave, two staff members have collected their own belongings and locked up, yes, it could well be ten minutes over the closing time of the nursery.

As a nanny I have never charged for staying late, although I have accepted (usually with protests that it is not necessary) my normal fees, charged by 15 minute intervals, when parents running more than 15 minutes late have offered. My good nature in this matter was totally abused by a parent who frequently phoned me half an hour after they should have been home to say she was stuck at work and could I possibly stay longer - not much choice really as I couldn't walk out and leave the children alone - she would then turn up another half hour to hour after her new eta, then want to chat about something or other.

my point is that if this is indeed an unenforceable penalty clause then the OP and everyone else at that nursery, does not have to choose between accepting the penalty or going elsewhere - the nursery is not legally entitled to impose it. This is to protect consumers who often don't have a choice to negotiate terms for the services they need. I don't know if it is in fact a penalty in this case, nobody does unless a Court has given a ruling, but if I were the nursery I would be quite worried that my chances of successfully defending that level of charge probably weren't great and wouldn't take the risk.

Don't pay these nasty thieving fuckers a penny.

3 minutes does not count as late unless you are trying to profiteer by imposing late fees.

I would not want people who treated valued customers in this way anywhere near my children.

I want my children looked after by people I can trust to be decent and honest.

They are neither.

That's good that they've knocked it down a bit. If it was me I would always ask a staff member what time it is the instant I walk through the door from now on, and if it's 4.28 or later I would be rushing my DC straight out and sort out coats etc outside the building. Asking them the time means no unexpected bills, and if they say 4.31 or whatever then you can at least double check that it's the correct time if you think their clock is fast.

Totally bonkers. I've been late to preschool for a mixture of reasons before and no-one has even batted an eyelid, let alone charge.

I think it's awful people's views on this there are of course accidents and acts of gods but more often or not there are regulars

Nobody has disagreed with nurseries charging people who are very late or regularly late. The charge should reflect the true cost and inconvenience though. There is no way that £90 (or even £30) is reasonable if a parent is late by three minutes once in four years.

Tell em to shove it and take you to court ...

It'll cost them shit loads more to do so.

Find another childcare provider

Knock £1 for each 6 seconds off your fees every time they are late opening their doors in future.

Who owns this nursery?

JustaStorminateacup.

£30 isn't quite as bad as £90 but it still seems excessive for 3 minutes I'd find it hard to be charitable to them in future.

I understand the loss of faith point-- that amount for 3 minutes when the setting was open shows a real lack of judgement and common sense on the part of management. And reflects no respect for the fast that clocks can differ, maybe it was 1 or 2, or for the relationship you have with the nursery. And you may not want your dc in a setting where the management has such poor judgement!

The day my dh had a cycle accident our after school club was nice about it. They reassured dc, they didn't charge their usual fee (50p per minute) and were concerned for dh. That's good human judgement. If a staff member had had a dentist as a result, I'd have offered to pay it-- again, goodwill is a basic part of human relationships and you need to have it with the people who look after your children!
90 quid. Crazy.

That's absolutely ridiculous!

Agree completely with afussyphase! £30 is extortionate. I don't think there should be a charge by the minute (especially since watches can be one or two minutes' out!) It should go per 5 minutes, I think...
You are obviously not continually late, and have done a lot for the nursery!
I would not keep my children in a place where they showed such poor judgment tbh.