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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think the Welsh Government are brilliant for doing this

108 replies

Newenglandinthefall · 13/01/2016 13:54

Common sense prevails in Wales over term time holidays.

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education/parents-can-take-children-holiday-10727130

OP posts:
hobnobsaremyfavourite · 14/01/2016 19:54

Am off this thread this always happens when it comes to the Welsh language.

jorahmormont · 14/01/2016 19:55

Primary school children from English speaking homes who attend Welsh only schools are less likely to be top performers in maths, science and English than English-medium pupils

I know I know this is an anecdote and probably an exception to the rule, but I come from a solely-English speaking home, did first-language Welsh because I picked it up so quickly, and finished end of GCSEs top of my year in English with A*, got an A in A-Level English, did my Maths GCSE a year early and got an additional GCSE in year 11.

Being bilingual from a young age helped me to pick up other languages very quickly - A in GCSE French, conversational Spanish, even BSL - and so we're raising DD bilingually too (and have taught her sign language to compensate for the slight delay in communication often seen in bilingual children, but so far we've had no issue), and I'd be very unhappy if she wasn't able to attend a Welsh-medium school.

YouBastardSockBalls · 14/01/2016 19:58

That's because I've learnt Welsh colloquially hobnob - integration and all that.

Numerous people who have been through my local school have reported the same anti-English sentiments being encouraged. Hence the 'maybe I'm just in a bad area.'

And you know, it is ok for people to criticise Welsh medium education. It doesnt mean that they are anti-Welsh. At all.

jorahmormont · 14/01/2016 19:58

I went to school in Gwynedd, arguably the "most" Welsh area in terms of education, and there was a definite hostility towards English in primary school, but that's because I grew up in a rural, insular, backwards village that regards any incomers as enemies (my family have lived there eighteen years now and are still treated like outsiders, despite learning Welsh and contributing to village life and the community).

Never known anti-English sentiments to be taught in secondary school, however, and Welsh was never taught at the expense of anything else.

YouBastardSockBalls · 14/01/2016 19:59

In fact, reading through the recent replies to this thread, it seems that lots of people have positive experiences of WME. Which is great.

But does give me even greater concerns for my local (and only option) schools.......

YouBastardSockBalls · 14/01/2016 20:00

there was a definite hostility towards English in primary school, but that's because I grew up in a rural, insular, backwards village that regards any incomers as enemies

Sounds familiar Grin

jorahmormont · 14/01/2016 20:05

It's gotten worse since SockBalls - I left the primary school in 2005, I was one of several English-born pupils at the time. Now, any English-born pupils travel five miles to the next nearest primary because it's so hostile now! There's a ton of inbreeding going on in the village because they're all sleeping with each other without realising their cousins so pretty much all the kids in the village school are now related Hmm

jorahmormont · 14/01/2016 20:05

*they're cousins

YouBastardSockBalls · 14/01/2016 20:09

Yes, I know a few first-cousin relationships with children. It's all a bit insular. And I have never felt more unwelcome anywhere in my life than I did when I first moved here Sad

But some people are nice.

And yes, yes, I know that not all Welsh people marry their cousins, and I'm not suggesting that for a moment.

Once again - NOT anti-Welsh, just speaking as I find.

jorahmormont · 14/01/2016 20:16

It's the same as the "Normal for Norfolk" stereotype, isn't it? I think all countries have areas like that, it's certainly not anti-Welsh to point out that Wales has them too. I'm so proud to consider myself naturalised Welsh (I think that's the term) and now I'm up in the North East Wales I love it, we live in a lovely village with a fantastic community feeling and plenty of Welsh being spoken alongside English, Polish, Spanish and other languages - but it'd be disingenuous of me to pretend that these rural backwaters are perfect Grin

Crazypetlady · 14/01/2016 20:18

Are you talking about deiniolen? Grin I went to a welsh medium school I actually learned welsh at a centre and did excellent in my GCSE's. I would not move to sweden and complain my children were going to do bad because they are taught in swedish. Learn the language / use an english medium school. It's a very old language it isn't going to stop for your children Hmm

Crazypetlady · 14/01/2016 20:19

I do however agree some people are horrible nationalists. But that is just some.

BoneyBackJefferson · 14/01/2016 22:14

"Teachers have a contract of employment. Pupils don't."

But on the uniform threads some parents believe that teachers and pupils should be held to the same rules.

Original poster
Newenglandinthefall · 14/01/2016 23:12

Really? This has turned into a welsh people marry their first cousins thread?

OP posts:
jorahmormont · 14/01/2016 23:55

Newengland - did you miss the part where SockBalls said -

"I know that not all Welsh people marry their cousins, and I'm not suggesting that for a moment."

and where I said -

"I think all countries have areas like that, it's certainly not anti-Welsh to point out that Wales has them too."

or did you just choose to ignore it? Hmm

I mentioned it as part of a wider discussion of how insular and backwards some rural areas are becoming. In addition to stating that I love Wales, am proud to call myself Welsh, my DP is Welsh, our DD is Welsh, we will always speak Welsh... it's not a Wales bashing thread.

Anotherusername1 · 15/01/2016 10:22

It may be a different statute in England but the legal position is the same. Heads can authorise holiday in exceptional circumstances. Therefore councils cannot tell them that they can't. That sounds the same as the position in Wales to me.

As for anti-English feeling, I went to uni in Cardiff and always heard these stories about everyone switching to Welsh in North Wales as soon as someone English walked through the door. I visited a friend who was at Bangor university which is in the heart of Gwynedd, and everyone spoke English all the time. I didn't hear anyone speaking Welsh which was quite disappointing. I didn't encounter any anti-English hostility either. I've not been to any isolated villages though.

DisappointedOne · 15/01/2016 10:31

It may be a different statute in England but the legal position is the same. Heads can authorise holiday in exceptional circumstances. Therefore councils cannot tell them that they can't. That sounds the same as the position in Wales to me.

Not quite. The assembly have said that heads can authorise up to 10 days holiday without the need for exceptional circumstances.

DisappointedOne · 15/01/2016 10:32

My mum and dad took a trip north when she was learning Welsh. Not only did the hotel staff not switch to Welsh, there was only one who knew any Welsh at all (and even then it was a tiny bit!).

YouBastardSockBalls · 15/01/2016 10:44

Nobody switches to Welsh - they speak Welsh all the time. That's just an urban myth.

Bangor isn't really a Welsh speaking area though - you have to head onto the llyn/Anglesey really.

YouBastardSockBalls · 15/01/2016 10:46

That is to say - Welsh is widely spoken in Bangor, but not to the extent of some areas. It's practically cosmopolitan compared to some Grin

OhtoblazeswithElvira · 15/01/2016 11:03

Hijacking much? Maybe MN needs its own anti-Welsh topic Hmm

YouBastardSockBalls · 15/01/2016 11:24

Oh ffs.

I can be critical of aspects of the Welsh education system without being anti Welsh. Stop being so dramatic.

MissBattleaxe · 15/01/2016 12:28

And Wales' education results are very poor

I would take issue with that. I'm in Wales and Estyn (Ofsted) are bloody thorough and my local school has amazing results, although I should imagine weaker schools in poorer areas may bring down the average overall.

MissBattleaxe · 15/01/2016 12:30

Yes, I know a few first-cousin relationships with children. It's all a bit insular. And I have never felt more unwelcome anywhere in my life than I did when I first moved here

I know nobody in a first cousin marriage, We're not remotely insular, and we're incredibly friendly and chatty.

MissBattleaxe · 15/01/2016 12:38

I know that the language is very much a living one, and I know it's going nowhere. But I really really think that based on official stats and strong anecdotal evidence, the Welsh medium education is failing children

But Welsh is just one lesson in English speaking schools. Most children speak English as a first language and Welsh as an add on skill. Your post reads as if Welsh makes their English skills deteriorate to a degree where they cannot succeed or communicate outside Wales. It couldn't be further from the truth that I know.

I was born here, educated here and now my children are being educated here. My two siblings and I had no trouble getting into English unis and our children have thrived in the education system.