AIBU to think a 6 year old should let others sleep

[Dogtired000]

On mobile so will keep brief.

6 year old DD often wakes in the night and almost always goes to the toilet.

She is incapable of not waking up me and DH... Either through being loud when going to the toilet itself or then going back to bed and (rather than lying down and closing eyes), sitting in bed and playing with toys/singing/getting out of bed to play with anything available (for example socks)

There is no UTI. No signs of anxiety when waking.

Things tried so far

Not giving drinks in the 2 hours before bed

Gro-clock

Practising going to the toilet quietly

Removal of toys from bedroom

Stickers

Telling very sternly to go to sleep

Going to bed early the next night so she has a sense of missing out.

These will work either on the night or for a couple of days (stickers) but we always revert to type.

We don't get more than a few days uninterrupted sleep and it's now at the stage where DH and I, when hearing her go to the toilet, stay awake as we know she'll start making noise at some point in the next hour. She often stays quiet for 30 mins then gradually ramps up the volume. Going in to tell her sleep when she goes back to bed after using the loo seems to have little effect.

She goes to bed at 7.15 ish light out 7.30... Up at 7-7.15. We tried making bedtime later but she becomes unmanageable.

AIBU to think it's not realistic to expect an (admittedly emotionally immature) 6 year old to understand it's ok if she isn't sleepy but she needs to lie down with her eyes closed - QUIETLY?

Suggestions welcome!

What does she actually do that wakes you up?

Sorry, I see you've said.

I really think you should try an audiobook- what have you got to lose?

Your question's a bit difficult to answer, really. Yes, I think if a 6 year old can't sleep for an hour I would probably expect her to come and wake me up- an hour is a long time in the night.

I wouldn't do earphones or anything like that - surely that will just wake her up more!

I'm sorry OP it sounds like a nightmare. I wouldn't know what to do, I would get really annoyed probably and whisper-shout.

My little one sometimes gets up in the night for a wee, every time it wakes me up (and scares the shit out of me) but at least he just goes back to bed and nods off.

Does she put the light on?

dd2 is 8 and is an early riser. The rest of the family aren't.

We have had a constant battle to gte her to understand that she must bang the bathroom/ bedroom door when she goes to the loo, and that she can't go downstairs heavy footed, and that she can't play noisily.

Now, at 8, she is very quiet in the mornings, until 7 am (which is our getting up time) It has taken a long time and a lot of reinforcement, and she is still noisy with the bathroom door.

When she was 6, if she got up in the night, she would wake us to put her back to bed. I did think that getting up in the night is a bit scary, and juggling light off and back into bed. She snuggled down and was back to sleep quickly though.

whoops - MUSTN'T bang the door!

Is she reading yet? Allow her to read to herself in bed, lying down - she should end up dropping off again at some stage.

Or try to teach her other methods for getting herself back to sleep - counting sheep, maybe?

DD is now 10, and occasionally still does this (wakes us up) - but is getting better at taking herself back to bed now in the middle of the night. She only started to realize the time properly this past year (despite clock and her own watch for a good while). She has also learned how to turn on her audiobooks herself (on iPod) and will read if she can't sleep.

But there were many broken nights for us before getting to that point.

I feel your expectations are far too high. Six year olds are very little. Going to the toilet in the night is far better than a wet bed. Does your lo have a torch? It would make it easier for her to see where she is going.

She won't be six forever. The problem of waking in the night will solve itself given time. I think that threats and punishments don't work on a child who is half asleep.

Her night is too long, 12h is what babies and toddlers need, she might be bored out of her mind, rested and banned from entertaining herself. Try 8 or even 9pm for bedtime.

I'd have to agree that you're expecting her to stay in bed for too long. It's her not so subtle way of telling you she doesn't need 12 hrs sleep.

Next holiday/half-term maybe do a few days of much later bedtimes and earlier wake-ups until she's tired enough not to wake up to play in the middle of the night. Once you've got her "sleeping through" I'd then move bedtime and wake up time gradually outwards until you find the right combo for her.

Yes let her stay up later and stop policing her night time waking. Get earplugs?

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect her to return to get bed and to stay quiet at that age. DD1 will turn 6 this week and she would know not to wake anyone up if she got up for a wee or was awake. I also don't agree with PP's saying she has too much sleep - mine has lights out at 7pm and still sometimes needs waking at 7:45am to go to school! They find school very tiring and need all the rest they can get! I think you'll have to try to find some consequences that she is bothered about (removal of screen time the subsequent day?) for any occasion when she is noisy at night. You could try one of those toddler toys that plays music and projects lights to help her relax back to sleep?

Yes, some kids need 12h, evidently not this one. Mine need 10.

I understand your point about your DD trying to make conversation during the night, my DS does that as well, but not always.

As a PP said, maybe your expectations are too high. Maybe she needs a later bedtime, or maybe it's just a phase. After many years of no sleep with DS (he's been a horrible sleeper for years and years), I found out that accepting it is less painful than fighting it.

This too shall pass.

I know you said she would just fiddle with a CD player but I still think it would be worth a try. Get the cheapest Argos one (my 4yo has it and can work it) and a couple of story CDs. Tell her three (or however many you want) quiet nights will earn her another story CD of her choice (maybe her favourite book). Being noisy will mean no CD player the next night. Let her practise switching it on quietly and getting the volume right before bed.

Also, as a punishment for not being able to sleep longer than even the conservative NHS suggestion you have her Going to bed early the next night so she has a sense of missing out? So she has to be quiet for 13h? She sleeps 1.5 more nights per week than many 6yo I know.

I do agree she mustn't wake you though, but she needs to be allowed to play or something when she's slept enough. Get rid of the surplus rest over a couple of days of really late bed, then see what she needs.

Ds for years has been in bed for 12 hours but wakes for around 3 hours in the middle of it. We have been trying to push his bedtime back but he becomes very aggressive (he has sn) when he is tired. This pattern started when he dropped his naps at 3 and he is 9 now. Occasionally he will sleep through till around 4 am but then is up for the day.
I think you should try to push bedtime back even if it is only by 5 mins a week and give her something quiet to do when she wakes. It is very likely she will grow out of this.

Thanks for all your thoughts. Seen some people think IABU, some don't

My gut tells me she does need this much sleep. Although she's waking in the night she is absolutely horrendous the next day (and the day after) without it. Tantrums, defiant, teary, doesn't eat more than two (literally) mouthfuls of food... So it's hard to take the step of a later bedtime.

It's been going on for 18 months so I am keen to find an answer even though there may not be one. I'm bloody knackered!

The lost frustrating thing is that we've practised not banging the door etc but she seems to care not a jot

I will look at the toddler sleep light/sound things (any recommendations) and think about a CD player/audio book

But good to know it's not totally unanimous that IABU!

Regarding the door, I'd put some door stoppers or some foam to soften the noise.

It might take a slightly later bed time to save 2 h awake in the night. I'd give it a go, gradually.

Poor you op. Totally empathise my dd is 5 and just does not switch off until 10-11 ish tried all the stuff suggested above too it's like she just does not wind down until 10 plus. She is also loud and will play destroy her room which i'm sure doesn't help.
It's hard frigging work isn't it.
Just to say though my dd goes to bed at 8 and is younger than yours I would def try 8 pm bedtine as a start. ( i've tried later with mine and it just sets back the time she's awake until..) you are not alone and not bu!
I think the litle angels are all just different and it will stop as they get older and more independent.you may need this

If I get woken up 3 or 4 hours after I've gone to sleep, I find it REALLY hard to get back to sleep. Its like I'm in a lighter stage of sleep and actually feel quite refreshed so its difficult to drop back off.

Maybe its something like that?

I recommend a dim light in the hall and bathroom so she doesn't have to turn on any main lights, and an audio book for her to listen to in her bedroom in the dark to help her drop back off.

For the banging door - you can fit a soft close mechanism or even just one of the foam door stopper things like this:
www.amazon.co.uk/Safety-Wedges-Stopper-Finger-letters/dp/B007925HFA

i think it's not an unreasonable expectation in itself, but it's not usual for a six year old to be awake so long. It's unreasonable to expect that much quietness from a 6 year old who's awake so long, IYSWIM. Our 6 year old is a star and only wakes us if he needs us, but he would need us after less than an hour of being awake.

We elicited early morning quietness by being grumpy and short with them if they were noisy in the morning. I don't think this is a recommended parenting technique. They can read after x time and go downstairs to play after y time.

I think she needs to get back the knack of falling asleep. Are there elements of her bedtime routine you could put in for her to do herself, in the night? And it's a bit random but have you considered "magic" comfort things? We have a huge, soft squashy bear that is brought out for when DD can't sleep. It's a special, allegedly sleep inducing bear. We used a "magic" muslin when she was smaller. You could try adding a drop of lavender - but do explain that the smell helps her to sleep. You want a whacking great placebo effect on top any genuine effects. Also we try to take the pressure off. They are never expected to go to sleep. They're told "a rest is almost as good as a sleep". If it's lights out time and they are awake that's fine, but they need to close their eyes and have a rest instead. It's impossible to go to sleep if you're actually trying.

Interestingly people used to regularly have an awake period in the middle of the night. It's quite modern to sleep through. It might help to know she is just doing what people did pre-industrialisation.

You also said she takes a long time to get to sleep at bedtime.

That to me indicates she hasn't yet learned how to get herself to sleep. So when she wakes in the night she can't do it either.

I would try (maybe over half term?)

• bedtime an hour later
• loads of outdoor physical activity in the day, much more than usual
• removal of all electronics 2 hours before bedtime (not just 1) to really get mind to slow down. Instead gentle board games or whatever.
• gentle consistent bedtime routine, bath, stories in low light.
• complete darkness after lights out - if she can't see the toys she can't play with them so easily
• wake up at usual time if oversleeps
• loads of praise if she cracks it

I reckon if you can crack the initially getting to sleep you are a long way to cracking the middle of the night ones too. If you sort getting to sleep then gradually move bedtime back forward again.

(AD1 had poor bedtime experiences and took around 3 years after she came to us to learn how to self-settle.)

We have an LED night light that changes colour. Started using it two weeks ago with DD [3] and seeing noticeable improvements in the 3-4am wandering schedule. The changing colours seem to mesmerize her a bit and she goes to/back to sleep.
Huge amounts of praise and treats for staying in bed too.

Foster a love of reading and make sure she always has easy access to stage appropriate books. That's how we got round a similar problem. I have a now 7yo who still needs 10.5-11 hrs sleep but wakes at 6am regardless of bedtime