To ask what UK parents really think of school uniform

[longtimelurker101]

Relating to the thread on school uniform and hair dying. What do parents really think? Do you support the idea or would you prefer that schools across the U.K went non-uniform and had no rules regarding appearance?

(There is also a question of whether we should carter for the 'many', or the 'few'. Do we go with non-uniform and non-uniform shoes, because the great majority of parents will buy sensible alternative garments that are appropriate for school and for the weather? Or do we go with uniform, and standard black leather shoes, to protect the small minority whose parents who would wither not dress them sensibly for the weather / school or who we as a school need to dress anyway and can dress more quickly and unobtrusively using a uniform? Do we consider those at the margins who would not have the 'right' jeans and hoodies - because I bet you anything that within that self-imposed uniform there will be the 'right' sort and the 'wrong' sort, visible to children but invisible to adults - and thus may be tipped into 'otherness'? Or do we go for the vast majority whose parents would be able to buy them things that were inconspicuously 'fine'?

It's always a debate, to go with the many or the few. As Ii have said before, for 99% of people, 99% of the time, I don't care about uniform either way. But for a very few children, a small minority of the time, it makes all the difference, and thus i would tend t support it, in a loose sense, for all)

More needs to be done to make school uniform more comfortable - take children with eczema for example - even the 100% cotton uniforms can aggravate the skin; what about children on the autistic spectrum who are affected by hypersensitivity to touch and HATE seams?

eczema sufferer parent here. absolutely agree with this. uniform.is the worst thing ever that happens to an eczema sufferer . bad enough in primary I'm dreading secondary and the stupid blazer rules. at times I'm. tempted to send the schopl the sodding g invoice fir all the shit I have to buy to help Dds skin.

If you truly don't mind what kids wear, why mind a uniform? You do mind. You want them looking better than in the uniform, which admittedly isn't the most attractive, even if it is really practical. Of course our school don't have ties and shirts and pleated anything, so we are lucky

no I want my dd to be comfortable. see above post re eczema. she is currently freezing her legs as I can't find trousers that fit and tights annoy the hell.out of her and cause itching. and leggins aren't allowed.

and as I've posted befire about shoes I'm still curious as to why flashing lights, little toys in soles and ballet pump style shoes which frankly just be a H&S issue are allowed. and no one cares kids sit shivering with wet socks. yet a perfectly please my looking walking boot isn't allowed. makes no sense.

pleasant.

Ffs phone

Good input Joffery and Schwabi.

My experience of the US was both wealthier and extremely poor schools in New Jersey, think ones where people's parents are all university lecturers or work in NY banking, and then another which has the highest crime rate in the East Coast of the US. I'd say in the former had as many social issues as the latter, but in the latter the have and have nots were much more visible.

I also taught in London in the 80s and although it had its issues, the bringing in of uniform stopped some of the competition, there were still things to compete over but there were fewer of them.

Got to say, that thought crossed my mind with the "Uniform does nothing - repeat ZERO - to level out social differences".

It's not a constructive way to approach discussion. Repeating something in a louder voice is not a discussion. I wouldn't use this construction in real life unless I was instructing a child not to do something really stupid or dangerous.

The best of MN is subtle and respectful of difference of opinion. We clearly do all have different opinions on uniform and that should be interesting - not a cue to indulge in proclamations. I'm happy with anecdote, opinion, evidence - even where it's unscientific or different in conclusion to mine. But proclamation that you are right just because you say so...not so much.

captain you're taking a massive leap there. I am not intolerant of anyones opinions, just expressing my own. It's something a few courses I did have touched on, which is why it interests me and even doing initial teacher training, we were taught about the way parental expectations and beliefs, can impact schools and kids. And there are few professions where ill-founded, non professionals' beliefs and prejudices can alter what goes on, within that world.

I'm not aware of any hard (unbiased) evidence that uniforms benefit education and learning. As a former teacher and now parent, all that really interests me is my kids' learning. If wearing pink socks could provably improve their learning - I'd be all for kids wearing pink socks.

I have taught in schools with and without and had my own kids at schools with and without, as well as taught abroad and in the UK, so my opinions are based on observation and experience. I think parents are broadly in favour of it because they don't know any better. Education's a great thing.

Here, here backing

Reread some of your posts joffrey, your tone is intolerant.

"Let's face it kids have way more non uniform clothes than is required for just weekends, partly due to needing enough for holidays"

But that is a parental choice. I posted a clothes list for my children on a post not long ago, and got shocked / horrified responses at how few they had - 1 pair of jeans, 2 pairs of long shorts (one very old, one newer), a couple of hoodies and 3 T-shirts, and a pair of trainers sees DS through the year. DD has 2 pairs of 'bottoms', again a couple of warm tops / hoodies, 2 pairs shorts, and about 5 tops / T-shirts. She does also have a 'nice top and skirt' combo for summer, the same for winter, and a total of 3 pairs of non-school shoes. I wash more often in the holidays than I do in term time, basically, but they don't have any extra clothes.

I think parents are broadly in favour of it because they don't know any better. Education's a great thing.

Arrogant and condescending.

Schwab, ah my apologies - I get what you mean, now.

Just thinking of my older sons' friends - they fell into very recognisable 'tribes' - emos, footie 'lads', quiet kids in the library who liked anime, etc etc - despite the uniform. Living in small villages where they all grew up together and see eachother all the time out of school as well as in, they seemed to identify with one group or another despite the personality-nullifying uniform. It's a school with no sixth form, so the second they all got to college, they all seemed to blossom into their 'true selves' although given the rigid hierarchies of kids, they all knew all along who was who. Interesting.

Uniform as a concept is fine - leveller (more than non uniform anyway)

School thinking they can dictate every little aspect of how/when certain items are worn is ridiculous.

I don't understand why schools think they should have more control over our children than prison officers have over inmates.

Telling a kid when they can wear a coat?
Dictating what shoes they wear on the way to school.
Measuring skirts.
etc.

This is all ridiculous has no impact on how they learn, seems to be a power trip for school/teachers.

As school are meant to be in loco parent (or whatever the phrase is) how are they able to get away with this reckless treatment of kids. Imagine making some kid walk to school in Mary jane type shoes, cos boots aren't allowed, without a coat, carrying pe kit and foot tech ingredients (or art folder/ project, instrument) as well as all the books they need that day, in pouring raining, then telling them they have no locker so have to carry it all around all day and they're not allowed to take that wet soggy blazer off when they get there. You wouldn't treat an animal like that.

Some of these kids are 11 and are treated like shit, often all they want is to wear a coat, or tights in summer or boots in snow, or not have to wear a tie in ridiculous heat. Schools that focus on this sort of stuff are pathetic and have superiority complexes and a determination to ignore other more important educational stuff they could focus on.

Why can't they wear a coat roller ?

Re losing the child, we were all doing a free flow activity in a defined area, but unfortunately (not our choice) at the same time as another school with an almost identical uniform. Other school lined up to leave for the next area, small boy lined up obediently and off he went. He had only been at the school a matter of weeks. It was a very long twenty minutes until we found him!

I think parents are broadly in favour of it because they don't know any better

I know. I'm such an idiot

"I don't understand why schools think they should have more control over our children than prison officers have over inmates. "

Umm, I don't know of a school that dictates what you eat, what you wear, what you can watch on the TV, what you can do 24/7. Bit conflating there.

Backing I agree, as I've said before from many of the anti-uniform crowd there is no other way than their own way and anyone else's opinion is dismissed as wrong or invalid because of their own experience, and despite that it is based on others. It has been one of the frustrating things about this disussion.

That other school should have counted their group when they lined up!! ambroxide

Yes, they should!

What I find telling is how joffrey an anti uniform poster professes to be all for children showing their true identity, free of the constraints of uniform. Sounds very tolerant and free. Yet, their tone and attitude is quite the opposite and quite dictatorial.

roller, historically I suspect it came along with OFSTED etc - the hard truth is, and educators have always known this, parents like the idea of uniform even if many of them don't. It fits in with the culture of league tables, kids being taught to test, etc. All those things that are educationally unsound. In a sense, it is political.

Yesterday, my son annoyed the admin woman who has taken it on herself to do uniform 'patrol' because he has a tiny logo on his otherwise black shoes. It's probably no coincidence the school has a new Head, this term. In the smaller sense, these things are political too. Interestingly, he said his form teacher had to line them up and 'inspect' uniform and he was wearing these same shoes and she made no comment so enforcing the rules is subjective, too. It's all a load of nonsense. If a tiny logo on his shoes means he can't remember Pythagoras' Theorem, or the Periodic Table, or the key facts about his current Eng Lit set text.... then I will take that back.

longtime "the anti uniform crowd" "they"

Your repeated claims at unbiased impartiality are wearing very thin indeed!

People arguing against uniform - or for it being a non issue - are not really a "crowd" and are not all arguing identically.

People in favour of uniform are in general equally unwavering and dismissive of the opposite point of view. People have a point of view and argue for it. That is always the case if you ask people "are you in favour of X" whether it is joining the Euro or Scottish independence or school uniforms or vaccination or any other topic.

You are as guilty of this:
" anyone else's opinion is dismissed as wrong or invalid because of their own experience, and despite that it is based on others. It has been one of the frustrating things about this disussion."

as anyone on the thread, with the double whammy that you think by saying you are being impartial and accusing others of confirmation bias, and acknowledging a couple of the more difficult to disagree with disadvantages of uniform or throwing in the odd "its a complicated one isn't it" you can convince everyone with smoke and mirrors that you are eminently reasonable and anyone who has a different opinion to yours is not being reasonable because they are not changing their minds and agreeing with you!

captain you're the one trying to use confrontation to close down debate. I'm expressing an opinion. Others are expressing opinions. Opinions vary. Both sides of the discussion are interesting but relentlessly hounding me won't make me piss off. The fact I'm procrastinating here when I'm meant to be working - might make me piss off.

See if I'd worn school uniform from age 5 - I'd be much more compliant, eh?

I'm not part of any crowd, OP. I have an opinion. You asked for opinions. You obviously have an agenda here and are sniping and name calling those who are not cooperating with your agenda.

No one's still answered as to why a child shouldn't be able to wear a practical shoe.

sone have quite a distance to walk or want to ride scooters etc. why can't a walking boot be acceptable.

Exactly Giles.

Chinchilla - there's been at least 1 reference on the threat about school having to issue permission before kids are allowed to start wearing coats, at my school they sent home letters saying when this would start but it's very similar to schools saying kids can't take blazers off (or even have to ask) in summer.

I did compare kids to how prisoners are treated as there are some real comparisons there. Eg lunchbox police, told what to wear, told what to wear on way home, etc obviously treatment isn't identical (some ways prisoners are treated better, e.g. I think more is spent on their lunch than the average school lunch) but in reality children should be treated much better than prisoners and comparable to grown ups in work or education. Denying rights to kids that you wouldn't to grown ups is ageism and discrimination (unless there is a genuine reason, not like they all look nice in the school photos and because parents like uniform as has been quoted up thread)