To ask what UK parents really think of school uniform

[longtimelurker101]

Relating to the thread on school uniform and hair dying. What do parents really think? Do you support the idea or would you prefer that schools across the U.K went non-uniform and had no rules regarding appearance?

Your taking my words and skewing them here for your own needsite. If you look further back you will see that actually I gave vet good reasons why girls should be able to wear trousers if they like.

Neither have I suggested that all rules are enforced well. I asked a question and have stated my preference in the opposite.

Finally your point about adults get to do what they like, again I didn't say that did I, I said that there are many things that adults do and children can't not. Also tu quoque is a well known argument floor. Saying "you do" doesn't give the argument any more justification.

Flaw... how can that get changed by auto correct ?

I support school uniform on the whole.

But: I don't support expensive uniform that can only be obtained from one shop. Keep it simple and obtainable from supermarkets.

I don't support girls being told they can't wear short skirts because it upsets male teachers (as opposed to them just being inappropriate in a work-like environment).

I don't support sexist uniforms eg girls can't wear trousers.

And I don't think kids should be isolated from lessons because they don't have the right uniform. Some infractions are down to the kids (girls hoiking their skirts up, boys not wearing their ties) in which case give them a detention. But some are down to the parents misreading or misunderstanding the rules, or not having the money that week to buy a replacement. I don't agree with punishing the kids for the parents' perceived shortcomings.

There are too many silly rules around uniform (eg in my son's school they have to ask to take their jumper off in the summer!) which I think comes from trying to instill discipline. But for me school is a work-type environment so an office dress code with a basic uniform would be sufficient.

Almost all work places have power differentials and hierarchies and employees often dress to that hierarchy, but using a compulsory uniform to entrench that does not generally lead to good working relations. In this instance it is less about the particular uniform itself as it is about the use of that hierarchy and power to control those further down the chain in a way that has no purpose other than the display of that control.

Agree with another about rule implementation if uniforms have to exist.

Primary uniform I've no issues with. Ours is black trousers or dark gray skirt, white polo shirt or shirt/blouse then a logo jumper/cardigan. The jumpers are £10 - £12 and last really well so not extortionate in my book. There are no stupid rules about coats and bags etc.

I've 3 DC and only ever lost 1 cardigan in all the time they have been at primary (eldest in yr 6 now) as school seem on the ball about reuniting kids with labelled clothes (even DS who constantly leaves his jumpers in random places. Sometimes they come home a day or two later but they've always come back so far.)

The kids do look smart, uniform is practical but leaves some room for choice eg eldest wears skirt and blouse at her choice but younger DD has t shirt and pants. It's also very practical on school trips for easy identification of pupils for the parent helpers.

Local secondary has a stupid uniform and stupid rules. Keep it simple I say.

A bit of a derail, but WTF is a "mufti" day?

Non-uniform day, I think it's an army slang word in origin?

I absolutely, 100% categorically support uniform. Growing up in the US, where non-uniform is the norm, I am very grateful that's a minefield my kids will never have to navigate.

I was one of those kids who would have had hated wearing my own clothes to school so was glad of the uniform and the anonymity it afforded me.

My dd 6 going on 16 on the other hand is the kind of child I would hate to dress in her own clothes on a morning

We still have battles over trouser wearing have given up on this one and tucking polo shirt in dd lost this one

uniform is a huge yes from me!

Sofiria I agree with you.

I also note that in countries which all of the children wear ordinary clothes to school, the teenagers look neat, wear jeans and tops and generally look pretty decently dressed, no bellies showing, no very tight clothes, just a standard teenage look of jeans and nice tops for boys and girls (noticeably unisex as well).

In the UK, children wear polyester uniform clothing to school which is often lumpen and misshapen (there is one SW London girls school with green/brown dresses which is simply the worst outfit I've ever seen and all the poor girls look hideous without exception). They then wear really quite awful clothing, cheap and horrible on the weekend and often ill-fitting/revealing in daytime. It's also extremely gendered clothing, short skirts for girls etc which you don't see in mainland Europe as much.

I've always wondered if this is correlated, that UK children don't get a sense of what is comfortable and good quality and good fabric early on as they are forced into these god-awful uniforms. They then have a lot of difficulty dressing well later in life or on weekends, when they finally get to let rip.

I don't think it leads to the UK population dressing badly HP.

I do think some schools implement the rules poorly, I've never isolated a child for their uniform, a detention maybe, but not isolation. Oh that's a fib, I did isolate the boy that had an Arsenal logo shaved into his head.

If you're going to have it, keep it simple, cheap, and reasonable rules.

I like school uniform as long as it's not too expensive. We have a school near us with no uniform and the pressure on parents to give their children the best dresses, football tops, etc is horrendous. There is no arguing over clothes in the morning with school uniform.

I've thought the same HP. I wonder if not being allowed to style yourself during the week leads people to be 'over invested' (probably not the right term but I can't think of a better one right now) in their appearance at the weekends?
My secondary had no school uniform. Most pupils wore jeans, trainers and jumpers. I don't remember there being any fuss over what people wore. I remember really wanting a Hot Tuna jumper when I was about 15 because surf wear was really trendy. My mum refused 'pay that much for a label', I moaned a bit then accepted it and that was that.
I really don't get the 'it prepares you for work' argument either. How? I've never had to wear a tie again since having to wear one at junior school for 4 years. The only uniform I've ever had to wear for work was a revolting polyester overall when I had a Saturday job in a shop as a teenager. Thank god school didn't have a uniform too!

I like uniform and so do my children. On non-uniform days they tend to wear jeans and hoodies. I don't think they give it a second thought.

Some of these arguments against uniform (that they encourage fights between schools ) surely only exist in Mumsnet Land.

It's also extremely gendered clothing, short skirts for girls etc which you don't see in mainland Europe as much whereabouts in Europe are you?

I can promise you gendered clothing is just as much of a deal in France and Germany!

I honestly don't think most parents think that deeply about it. It's the norm therefore it's accepted.

HPSauciness I have no idea what country you're referencing but it's nothing like that in Germany where I live. Teenagers just dress like teenagers. Exactly the same as they would in England or the USA.

Do you even get fights between rival schools any more anywhere outside of run down inner cities? I thought that was a 70s thing.

Its not something I've heard of in a long time Bertie. Fights between schools seem to be a story told to primary school children before they come up to secondary, much like the heads down the toilets, fights every day in the playground myths.

I'm from the UK but live in a country where the kids don't wear uniforms. I love it. One of my daughters has sensory issues like me, and I would have dreaded putting her into shirt, tie and jumper this autumn when they would have been starting school.

Fights do happen though, there was a recent mass brawl in Walthamstow between girls from rival colleges over a boy!

honestly don't think most parents think that deeply about it. It's the norm therefore it's accepted.

This

Also interesting that some PPs have brought up the need to prepare pupils for the world of dressing formally for work. In Germany/Switzerland where I live, there are far fewer professions that require formal business wear - government officials etc all wear a very casual version of business casual, also GPs, hospital doctors, even in banking where I used to work, the dress code was fairly relaxed for back office workers. The only people I've seen in suits since I moved to Germany were the bank manager and the bloke who sold us our kitchen (and even then he turned up to measure up in jeans and a shirt!) Nevertheless, somehow, business continues to be done

But Cats, lots of the parents for uniform have given reasons why they like it, appearing to have put some thought into it!

"In Germany/Switzerland where I live, there are far fewer professions that require formal business wear - government officials etc all wear a very casual version of business casual"

So then its a cultural thing, interesting. We definitely do have more formal business wear here, totally evident every day on my commute to work