Smaller families are better for kids?

[FlowersAndShit]

What does everyone think? What was your experience growing up in a small/large family?

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/small-families-are-better-for-children-research-finds-a6793936.html

[Indantherene]

Awful lot of generalisations on this thread.

I grew up as the elder of two and swore I would never have 2 children. IME it is the very worst number to have. When you have 2 and one is the favourite, the other is very obviously the unfavourite. We were very close as children but my DPs thought I should be responsible for my brother (2 years age gap) at all times. He was frequently a PITA but it was always my fault. This has pretty much carried on into adult life where nothing I do is ever good enough for my DM while DB pleases himself and she runs after him (bitter - you bet).

We had 4 very close together. DM frequently trots out the "poor little DD, all those brothers" and how we neglected her (pot, kettle) but we never ever ever made her responsible for any of her siblings. She did tend to get treated as older than she was, but not with responsibiities.

They missed out on stuff because we couldn't afford it, so one year they got a FP kitchen between them, but they were always grateful for what they got, unlike some of my friends children. DD did lots of activities but the DSs weren't interested. All had the same opportunities.

At one point they went to 4 different schools, and DH had an horrendous school run, but we were very careful to give each child what they needed and not just treat them as one lump. We worked shifts around them so they had both of us there equally, and the younger boys particularly saw quite a bit of their DGPs as they'd retired by then and were happy to do playgroup pickups.

Looking back there is lots I could have done better but we must have done something right. 2 of them live together and another lives with them both between travelling. They call and message each-other regularly - independently of me - and look out for each-other, and genuinely seem to really get along. We had everyone back for Christmas and they love all getting together.

We had DC5 when DC4 was 15. She is effectively an "only". She is in my face 24/7 demanding attention, and it is very wearing. I've managed to escape from her today but she's been in 4 times to see what I'm doing, because she can't play alone . DH having been so hands on with the first 4 now works silly hours and has taken a big step back, so this is now just me and her.

It really comes down to the personality of each of the children, each of the parents and the dynamics within the family.

[LiviaDrusillaAugusta]

I am an only child - i think it's lazy stereotyping to imply that only children expect a lot of attention. Having one of your two children with you is not the same as having an only child.

I played on my own 99% of the time when I was a child, and, whilst being able to live with people etc is a good skill, so is being able to be happy without relying on others.

My best friend was one of seven and couldn't handle being on her own without being bored/lonely.

[maybebabybee]

Yes it is lazy stereotyping Liv, but big families get that too. Especially on MN actually.

[raisin3cookies]

I think there are a lot of comments like "I couldn't have more than x number of children" that need an addition of "without changing my lifestyle/job".

I have 5 children and of course we couldn't afford the time, energy and money if I worked outside the home as well. The logistics would be a nightmare and I wouldn't have it in me to give them the emotional support they need, I have no doubt.

My husband has a good job that provides for all of us; we don't live the high life but we are comfortable. I have no problem with not owning the latest gadgets or going on fancy holidays (there's more to life than material things etc).

The children get along okay most of the time, but they are able to swap playmates easily to get a break from each other. I've adopted a sort of benign neglect style of parenting - I am not their playmate, it is not my job to entertain them. I feed, clothe, bathe, instruct, direct, educate and love them. While I am busy doing grown up things, they are expected to either help or amuse themselves.

They seem happy and well adjusted to me, but I suppose only time will tell. I would hope that they reach adulthood unburdened by their upbringing.

[Grilledaubergines]

Why do some people "feel sorry" for "only" children? I've never understood this. I'm not sure they need sympathy at all. My DC is an only. A polite, sociable child, who has plenty of attention yet doesn't demand it. Who doesn't get spoiled financially and is very generous in nature and is genuinely a pleasure to bring up. And I haven't come across, yet, an only child who is otherwise. Because I've found that my friends with one child are very aware of the faux sympathy at their child's sorry status and who make sure that their child is not raised in line with the stereotype.

[maybebabybee]

Grilled for me personally it is because I can't imagine growing up without my siblings. But that is personal to me because we're all really close, I know there are many who really don't get on with their siblings.

Now we are all adults we have a fabulous relationship and I think it's really beneficial having other people who get exactly what it was like growing up in your house, with your parents.

And from a practical perspective, if something happens to your parents then you (in theory) have others to share the practical and emotional load with.

So that is why all things considered I prefer my DC to have siblings. But it's because of my own experiences. I see a lot of 'I don't want to have a big family as I always had to look after my younger siblings/ share a room etc etc'. As it happens I did look after my younger siblings as my mum was a lone parent and had to work (my Dad left). But I don't resent it at all.

Just my two cents, anyway.

[nickEcave]

I am the older of 2 siblings, as is my DH. We have two DDs and no plans for anymore, perhaps because we are both quite cautious people and feel safe recreating the set up we both had as children (which we were both happy with). I do have a question for parents of larger families that I'd love the answer to. I have always believed that, once you become a parent, you can only ever be as happy as your least happy child. If you have loads of kids there must be so many times when one child is unwell, failing at school, experiencing bullying or just unhappy about something. Do you think that you are less happy personally once you have more children (regardless of how much pleasure your children may bring you)

[BessieBlount]

I have 4 and I don't recognise Autumnleaves's description at all.

I don't split myself 4 ways at a time. They get one to one time at different times. This includes bedtime, cooking times, popping to the one stop for 10mins, Saturday morning pop to Costa and stuff like that. We try to all engage in conversation during mealtimes too.
Re hobbies, between them we have rugby, netball, hockey, piano, violin, gymnastics and drama. They take place either as clubs after school or at the weekend so nobody else is ever dragged anywhere.
As for money, we're not wealthy but do ok. I work p/t for the enjoyment of it and that helps to pay for holidays. We manage 2wks in the summer and a winter holiday either at Christmas or Feb half term.
My older ones have never needed to parent younger siblings. Other than the odd 'keep an eye on him whilst I nip for a wee.' They are never expected to look after or entertain younger siblings or forced to allow younger sibs access to their bedroom or previous things.
Space and privacy? They each have their own bedroom, we have a lounge, kitchen family room and a den so plenty of space to spread out.

Undoubtedly it's hard work especially when DH is abroad and especially as they don't have grandparents or cousins but they adore each other and the boys are especially adoring of toddler dd. If we'd stopped at 3 she wouldn't be here and she has balanced out her brothers. (Although we always wanted 4, didn't keep going for a girl)
Oh and the washing never ends and I do get very little 'me' time but I love watching them together, helping each other and squabbling then redolving things.

[Caprinihahahaha]

But of course all these things are generalisations based upon experience or prejudice. Of course they are?
That doesn't invalidate anyone's experience. Nor does if imply that anyone else in similar circumstances will experience the same.
But let's not pretend that those experiences are not valid.

I was one of eight. In spite of my parents best intentions, and one being a great sahm, it was still a bit shit. I can't pretend otherwise so that another parent with a lot of children feels better. That would be disingenuous and dishonest.
But of course my experience does not replicate theirs

[BessieBlount]

nick, all children have periods of unhappiness regardless of their family set up. It's usually short lived and I don't tend to feel true unhappiness whenever my children are a little unhappy. I think that can sometimes feed their unhappiness. I can read them quite well and usually know when something is up. Thankfully, we've not encountered bullying yet but anything serious, even if I can just see its serious to them, gets my undivided attention and we try and work it out. With children though, it's usually over as quick as it appeared.

[BessieBlount]

Caprini, of course, but posters are sometimes posting as if they are stating facts such as
-only children as selfish or lonely
-older children in big families are forced to look after the little ones.

[nickEcave]

Of course all children have periods of unhappiness which pass, but I have found with both my DDs that these periods affect the whole family and if you have a larger number of children it will simply be the case that there will be more occasions when a member of the family is unhappy.

[scarlets]

I'm an only child. When I was a kid I didn't care, because I was always out and about with friends (we lived in a village and at weekends, the kids went out after lunch and roamed until dusk!)

Nowadays, I dislike being an only. I've been envious of friends' siblings for a long time. A couple of my close friends know this and have decided against having only children themselves because of my views, so I guess I must come across as quite strong in my opinion although I never intend to.

I know of a 13y old who's about to start looking after her 4y old brother after school twice per week because their mum has found a p/t job. There are only 2 of them - so older kids babysitting is not confined to big families. I don't find it a bad thing anyway - in families, everyone pulls their weight, it's only fair. It's only a problem if the older sibling is in loco parentis, with their schoolwork/social life suffering.

My only reservation about big families is financial. I think that it's important to have the funds for it. There's no need for children to be brought up in overcrowded poverty in the 21st century. Pre-war parents had little choice but these days are different.

[AndNowItsSeven]

Nick no I am not less happy personally? Why would I be my dh and my dc are my greatest joy.

[Caprinihahahaha]

[sigh]
Yes, I know Bessie

The truth is that a huge number of posters are posting bollocks without intending to.

If you asked my parents about having 8 children they would post much as some on here have - mum is a sahm, they are both intelligent and emotionally intelligent, they take time to meet the needs of each child.
All of which is convenient yet self serving.
I van absolutely vouch for each of my very smart siblings doing everything necessary to convey a happy positive homelife.

We wanted it to be. We love/loved our parents.

Nevertheless, meeting the emotional needs of eight children is, in my opinion, pretty unlikely.

[AndNowItsSeven]

Nick there may be more occasions when dc are unhappy but there are also more periods to celebrate. Birthdays , first steps, riding a bike, writing their name for the first time, learning to play an instrument etc.

[BessieBlount]

Yes but it is still subjective. Other people with post that bring one of 5,6,7 or 8 an amazingly happy experience. For me, I knew/know that 4 was always my limit. For others that will be 2.
I have to say, I don't know many mothers of 3+ who find the concept of parenthood stressful in itself. I do know quite a few mothers of 2 who feel this way. I know a few who had 2 children because they felt 'that's what you do' rather than because they wanted 2 children, or indeed any at all. That's by no means universal though and many parents simply want to have 2 children but there is a societal expectation of 2 children, preferably one of each sex.

[Philoslothy]

I don't care how ever great your kids are and however organised you are something has to give if you have a large family and I suspect the first thing to go is your own 'stuff'. I had my four within 5 years which was fun but very 'intense' and a bit too much hard work.

We have six plus a stepson, the only thing that has had to give is joy career, I see that as a blessing tbh as I am fundamentally quite lazy and would rather not work. I don't think the children have missed out, they all have hobbies, their own rooms, they constantly have friends over, we have great holidays, I have never missed a parents' evening now that I don't work I won't miss a school event. If you have a routine in place it is not what I would call hard work.

[Caprinihahahaha]

Well yes

My point is rather that actually it doesn't matter what we think our limit is. The point is what our children's experience turns out to be. And that is rather putting the cart before the horse, isn't it?

Your limit may be four but your children may privately believe you should have stopped at 2 or that you could have cooed brilliantly with 4 more.
The people deciding on how many they think they cope brilliantly with are rather over invested. Surely?

[Rebecca2014]

If my parents came on here, they would give a rosey view of having an large family but this thread is about how being in an large family can effect the child emotionally, its not about how you as parents cope with lots of children.

I think the only people opinion that is valid on here are the ones speaking from growing up in a small or large family.

[Philoslothy]

I am not sure that I agree caprini - I suspect that fertility and relationships issues aside most of us have the number of children that we can emotionally, physically and financially cope with. That equation takes into account the children that you have. Of course you can't mind read or see into the future but you make the best decision possible with the knowledge you have at the time.

Our situation is slightly complicated by the fact that our eldest has special needs and along with that has come some depression and aggression however our children are happy. We have tended to breed in pairs over almost 20 years which has helped, we only made the final leap from 4 - 6 when we knew that we could maintain our lifestyle on one salary and that I was happy to give up work.

[Philoslothy]

I grew up in a larger than average family - not 6 - and was miserable. However my parents were constantly pissed/ high/ in and out of prison and abusive. My childhood would have been shit regardless of sibling numbers. I think it may have been hellish if it was just me and them though.

[Caprinihahahaha]

Well we have to disagree then philoslothy.

My parent were brilliant and loving and wanted lots of children. They felt they had the time, energy and financial wherewithal to do each child justice.

They didn't.

That is not their failure. It's an indication that those making the decision are sometimes least best placed to make it.
IMHO obviously.

[BessieBlount]

Well how else should one decide? Having children is inherently selfish anyway, is it not?
You may chose a husband because they are fine to look at and make you laugh but your children may have preferred you to have chosen for earning potential. You may chose a career that gives you a massive amount of job satisfaction but requires long hours. Your children at have preferred you yo have chosen one that allowed you to sah for a few years or work from home for their childhood. I know adult who resent the fact their mother worked and others who look down on the fact that their mother stayed at home. We can all, only make the choices that feel right to us at the time.

[Caprinihahahaha]

How should one decide?
We just do the best we can don't we?
I've had three. Maybe I should have had fewer or more? I don't know.

What I don't do is kid myself that I rather brilliantly struck upon the magic number.
I think we parent best when we sit just outside that comfort zone of congratulating ourselves.