Smaller families are better for kids?

[FlowersAndShit]

What does everyone think? What was your experience growing up in a small/large family?

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/small-families-are-better-for-children-research-finds-a6793936.html

[Nonidentifyingnc]

I never expected my older dc to look after my youngest either.

[Molio]

Completely agree U2.

[CantSleepClownsWillEatMe]

My experience of growing up in a large family is pretty much exactly what AutumnLeavesArePretty has outlined but I realise that we all base our views on our own experiences. I had two children as I wanted them to have better than I had but I can see how others who may have loved being one of many might want to repeat that for their own family.

We weren't miserable but for me there were too many downsides, some of which you only properly realise the effect of as an adult.

[OriginalSinner]

I skimmed but the article seems to be about US research on educational and economic outcomes. My own family would look very good on those criteria because the firefighting was well done by my capable Mum. And we had free university education at that point.

[lostInTheWash]

Dh is an only child. He had lots of holidays and money as a kid but now he has lost both of his parents he has no one who shares his history and I think that is sad.

I have siblings and parents but feel like this and it doesn't feel great.

We moved around more away and back then away and they focus on another GC/DN- there is very little talking or going over past or introducing it to my DC.

IL are around more - their choice and childhood friends stuck around a bit longer for DH possible as they had DC similar age - plus IL will put us up with them when we visit while my parents won't despite having more space making trips to my family more expensive and more sparse. It does feel like my history has disappeared a bit.

[ItsANewDayToday]

Sometimes I find mothers (not fathers so much) of big families get a bit lost in their role of being great Mums. I have four and have always made time for myself but sometimes it's difficult. I don't care how ever great your kids are and however organised you are something has to give if you have a large family and I suspect the first thing to go is your own 'stuff'. I had my four within 5 years which was fun but very 'intense' and a bit too much hard work. I was quite the earth mother. . Now I look back I seem to remember feeling pleased with myself for having such lovely, polite, intelligent kids. I wonder if I was trying to prove something.

As can be seen on MN there are some Mums who are very, very, very into their kids

My kids are at university now and obviously I'm still very much a Mum (as I always will be) but I think it's good to move on a bit too. IYSWIM

[TurduckenForDinner]

I think there is a huge difference between large families now and large families of a couple of generations ago, or one generation ago in Ireland. People who have large families now generally do so because they want it and because they know they will be able to manage their time and energy so that every child gets what they need.

I was talking to a school mum friend about this a while ago. We each have two DC and couldn't cope with any more. There are several families in the school with five or six children and all of the mums of the larger families are calm not frazzled like us, things run smoothly and the DC are generally happy and chilled. So my friend and I reckon that they started with one or two and found that they enjoyed the whole parenting thing and didn't have particularly high-need DC so kept having another one.

[AppleSetsSail]

All of the things that I do with my children that I am most proud of - the things that really take it out of me - I doubt I could do with more than 2.

I think having a smaller family allows you to indulge your basic human instinct for laziness and also be a really good parent. Hats off to those of you who have a big family and do it well apart from the environmental impact.

[2016IsANewYearforMe]

Where do we draw the line at a large family? Is it four? five?

I expect what counts as too large depends on a particular families resources. It's easier to have more children successfully when you have a lot of time and money to start with. And as the article mentioned, the innate intelligence of "mum" is possibly the biggest resource of all.

Also, the quality of sibling relationships would be very important in a large family. If the children get along well and emotionally support one another that would be great. If they are all unhappy and competing, not so great.

[AndNowItsSeven]

Autumn a high income family with 5dc will have more money for extra curricular activities than a single unemployed parent of 2dc.
Also the lack of hobbies my dc do many varied activities.
My 17 year old does not care for her younger siblings , why would she they are not her children.
Neither does my 11 year old. As for my five youngest, the oldest is only 4y1m older than the baby so they are hardly going to " mini parent" each other.
Your experience is not my dc's experience.

[ohtheholidays]

Growing up I was one of 3,my siblings were 13 and 15 years older than me so I pretty much grew up as only child.My childhood was far from good,my parents didn't have the patience or the interest to be good parents and they didn't really change as I got older.

I was over the moon when I became an auntie at 7 years old and I was always very involved in the raising of all of my nephews and nieces,especially of my middle brothers children,I'm still the person they usually call for help,support and advice and I'm very close to my great nephews and great nieces.

My DH was an only child and was pretty much left to look after himself,his childhood wasn't an abusive one like mine was thankfully,but his Mum has always been quite distant(DH calls her a coldfish)she's the same now that she's a grandmother where as my parents excelled at being grandparents to our children and I'm so pleased with how they're relationship has developed with our children.

We have 5DC and our childrens life and relationships with us and with each other are the polar opposite to how my DH and myself experfienced growing up and family life.

We don't hit our children(I was beaten though my childhood)we don't belittle them(that happened for both of us as children in different ways)our children all get one on one with each of us,as hard as it can be to achieve this we've both always thought that was one of the most important things that we could give to all of our children.We've carried on with the one on one even now with our 2 oldest DS19 and DS17.

We have savings accounts for all of our children,they'll all be given the money from those accounts when they reach 21,we will have sorted out driving lessons,licence,test and cars for all of them when they turn 18.One done 4 more to go. Myself and DH never received any financial help from our parents.I was the one that supported my parents financially once I turned 16.

I was going to stay on at school and go onto college but a few weeks before I was going to start 6th form my parents made me quit school and get a job to help them out with money.

Our oldest DS19 stayed on for 6th form and then decided to leave(we wanted him to stay on)at the end.He's gone on to a get a really good job that he really enjoys and they're helping him work his way up and giving him onsite training in different aspects and he's been given shares in the company already.

Our second oldest DS17 is at college and is doing really well,he's also a brilliant rugby player and represented his school and was the team captain in his secondary and primary schools.

Our 3rd son 14 is the top of all of his classes and has started moving onto the next years levels already despite the fact that he is autistic.He already knows he wants to be an architect,he's picked out what he will need to study and what college and university he wants to attend.

Our oldest DD12 is also at the top of all of her classes and has real potential as an athlete,she's already representing her school and now the school are giving her extra support with the athletic side of her education because she has been asked to represent our borough.

Our youngest DC DD8 has just shot up in all of her levels at school and she attends a mainstream school which is amazing in itself as DD8 is autistic(her autism is on the more extreme end of the spectrum)she's also physically disabled,she couldn't walk till she was 3 because of the problems she has with her joints,feet and legs,she has to have special insoles in her shoes and she has problems with her eyes,bowels and intestines and sometimes has to go into a wheelchair.Despite all of that she attends a street dance class every week,has taken part in every show they've put on(they do 2 a year)and she's won a trophy for her dancing from one of the shows.
She also does judo every week and at her first competition(she'd only been going to the classes for 6 weeks)she won a trophy,she's well on her way to being a black belt and despite her age and heaalth she can throw both of her Senseis and her Dad and her Dad's 6ft.
And all 5DC are able to speak more than 2 languages and they all know sign language as well now.

All of our children attend/have attended out of school activitys,Judo,Rugby,Gymnastics,street dance,ballet,chess clubs,gardening clubs,computer clubs,cross country,drama school,cheer leading,karate,gym,football,German and Italian.

I was able to attend dance classes and cheer leading when I was younger and DH played basket ball.Neither of us were allowed to join in with anything else.

All of our children have gone on all the school trips they've wanted to go on in this country and abroad,myself and my DH were allowed to attend one each.

I know alot of people would think that it's all down to money but it's not,DH's parents and my parents had money.The only difference is that we prioritize our 5DC our parents prioritized themselves.

A childs life can be good or bad weather there is one child or 10 children in a family it's how the parents parent that makes all the difference not the amount of children someone has.

[lostInTheWash]

I don't care how ever great your kids are and however organised you are something has to give if you have a large family and I suspect the first thing to go is your own 'stuff'

I do think that is very true - though when they were very young DH lost a lot extra activities as well, though not full time work though that was necessity and joint decision, though I think he found less criticism from wider family and people when he started his activities back up.

With three under three it was all about the DC for a large number of years and not everyone in our lives were happy with that.

[maybebabybee]

I am one of four and had a lovely childhood. Always feel quite sorry for only children but recognise not everyone is lucky enough to have siblings they get on with.

[CantSleepClownsWillEatMe]

I think there is a huge difference between large families now and large families of a couple of generations ago, or one generation ago in Ireland. People who have large families now generally do so because they want it and because they know they will be able to manage their time and energy so that every child gets what they need.

Probably true for the most part. I really think my parents had a large family just because, no real thought into how they would manage in terms of space (small house), financially or practically. I suppose we are a lot more child centric nowadays compared to the 70s and 80s when children were expected to fit in with adults and there wasn't as much awareness or focus on a child's emotional needs.

[MrsJorahMormont]

I'm always interested in these threads because we worry sometimes about DD being an only. We try very hard not to spoil her but she is used to getting our attention. I would have been happier as an only I think!

I think being one of a big number only works if you have lots of help and support. I know one lady who has five children but tbh she only manages because she relies heavily on her siblings and parents to cope. Without that support network I would feel very sorry for her children.

[honkinghaddock]

I can remember being told off for not stopping my younger siblings doing things they shouldn't when I was 6. I don't think the older children have to end up being mini parents but I don't think it is unusual.

[2boysnamedR]

I have four. Four years between the three boys and two years between my last baby and the toddler.

It was all a breeze with those age gaps. Three was no harder than two. However having two under three is hard work.

My eldest spends most of his life in his room as he's turning into a teen so mostly only have three screaming and rounding around making mess and noise.

There's so much to consider. Age gaps, personality and need of the kids. I have even appealed three times to get my second oldest a statement and win so it's also about how much parent can / is willing to invest. I don't think most parents of two would but in the effort I have in getting my sons education right.

But for me personally there is a element of its my life too. If I want four kids then I have some sort of right to the family I want. I know that's selfish as of course two kids would get more money / space but at the same time it's made us plan budget and save to buy a five bed house. With two kids we would never have done that.

So swings and roundabouts. It's not everyone's cup of tea but my kids get all they need emotionally and physically. It's ok to not have all you want. It's hard in the day and age to not raise entitled kids. I hear so much that every child needs their own room. They need a mobile. I shared with my only sibling in three bed house. We both went to uni, we both have good professional jobs and our mum was emotionally cold to us.

I do joke that if we all get to end of the week alive then that's enough some weeks and some weeks I feel like that's true. Much like some mums of one ore two I guess?

[coffeeisnectar]

It totally depends on the parents. Some are brilliant to large families and have the energy and ability to give the attention to each child. One family I know have 7 boys and the dad is very seriously ill and yet mum, despite being a full time carer still gives all her kids the time they need, they do activities and she's just amazing.

On the other hand another family with 5 dc just don't seem to cope. House is a constant tip, kids run riot, no activities and I know the lack of privacy is a major issue for the two girls. They don't do any activities and generally don't seem very happy. Or clean.

I have two dc with a 7 year gap. Dp has 2 as well but it's rare all four are here together. His oldest is one of 4 and left home as soon as she could as her mum did the mini parent thing with her. The youngest is an only and really doesn't do well with sharing. She's been surrounded by adults all her life who have all given her their whole attention. Sharing her dad with me and my dds has caused a lot of problems.

Two was my limit. Financially and time wise, I wouldn't want more. I am exhausted with these two.

[Lasttangoin2016]

I had two. Only wanted two and we couldn't afford comfortably to have more than two. We like regular foreign holidays and have hobbies that are expensive so I went back to work when my children started school. 2 friends of mine who had children the same age went onto have further babies as soon as their youngest got to school age and seemed to stay in a permanent loop of having babies rather than move on with their original children through the years. It felt like the mothers were perpetually replicating the baby years and once the older children reached double figures were of no interest to them.

[LauraMipsum]

The end of the article is worth reading:

"one study published in 2005 that looked at families and kids among the entire population of Norway turned up substantially different findings. That study showed only negligible effects from family size on a kid's performance. However, a similar study done in China showed a big effect, with kids in larger families receiving much less schooling, especially in rural areas.

Juhn and her co-authors hypothesise that the discrepancy could be due to different policies in different countries.

Countries like Norway, which have extensive welfare programs, parental leave and other supportive policies for families, and strong public education, might see less of a trade-off for families between the quantity and quality of children, they hypothesizse. But parents in countries like the United States and China, which have a more limited support system for families and lower-income people, might be forced to choose, they say."

So it sounds like where mothering is valued and the state is supportive of parents, mothers don't have to stretch themselves thin between each child and families don't end up in grinding poverty. WHO KNEW.

[cleaty]

I suspect to be a good enough parent of lots of children, you need to be a very good parent. The large families I know are either chaotic and dysfunctional, or look very happy and sorted. But yes parents need to have enough time which means a SAHP or parents both working part time.

[throwingpebbles]

I expect working part time / or having a sahp is key, yes. Also having sufficient finances to afford a big enough house and all the things children need /benefit from (eg hobbies and sports; treats etc)

Also I don't have all 4 here the whole time but I definitely need a weekly cleaner and a DP who pulls his weight!!

[mrtwitsglasseye]

Not a great experience of two children in my family. Too intense, competitive and too much comparison. Nobody to dilute the dynamic.

We have four dc. True that they don't get much 1:1 time. But plenty of children in smaller families wish they had more time with parents and 1:1 time cam be difficult due to work etc. I hope the benefits make up for it. We'll see what they say when they get older!