To want the advertising of e-cigs banned

[Singsongsungagain]

I'll set my stall out from the off here. I have no time for smoking. I find it smelly, disgusting and of no benefit to anyone other than the fat cat tobacco company directors. I was delighted with the smoking ban and all of the limits that have been imposed on advertising and packaging etc, feeling that the world will be a healthier place for my children with the least amount of smoking possible. I'm all for a complete ban- although I appreciate the complexities of that.
But now it seems we have this new wave of e-cig promotion and personally I've been disappointed to see the TV adverts- which include the word "cigarettes". Surely this is a backward step in the promotion of a healthy nation?
I've just been reading an article from The Independent in which various well educated scientists, doctors etc have stated that there is now evidence that e-cigs damage cells. They are NOT a healthy alternative to smoking, and yet they are being promoted on our TVs in the same way that conventional cigarettes once were.

AIBU to think that e-cigs should be subject to the same regulations as conventional cigarettes?

Singsongsungagain - I wouldn't have a problem if the ban on advertising smoking was lifted, and advertised after 9pm. People are intelligent and well informed enough to know what's bad for them, just because you see an advert for something doesn't mean you instantly go out to buy it/use it!

MrsGently- I think most school children could tell you lots about pollution and the impact of cars on our roads to be honest.
I think the issue we have with vaping, amongst other things, is the limited amount of research that exists as to its safety.

I have no issue with vaping as a means to quitting smoking. I have no issue with it being an option to GPs and clinics in supporting people to stop smoking. I have a big issue with it being sold as a fun thing to do and it being so visible- potentially promoting smoking and reversing the very positive steps that have been taken in recent years. I have a massive concern about the word "cigarette" appearing in an advert on the TV.

And yet MrsGently, I think I'm right in saying that when advertising was banned on TV, the rates of smoking dropped. After 9pm wouldn't help at all- unless you believe all young people under 18 are in bed by 9pm.

They don't see them doing those things in the playground though!

No, they just see them doing those things everywhere else

Do you want to see adverts for nicotine gum and patches banned too?

Or is it just that you're worried vaping adverts seem 'cool' and 'glamorous'?

If so, rather than a ban I think dumbing down of the adverts (so they're seen more as an aid to giving up smoking), and better education is in order.

Do you think junk food ads should be banned because of the obesity levels? Or do you think education would be a better way to deal with it?

I think I'm right in saying that when advertising was banned on TV, the rates of smoking dropped

That could also be due to the shit ton of tax that was put on fags and tobacco at the same time.

So if we found a different name for them you would be happier?

MrsG and Worra:
Effect of tobacco advertising
There is a clear relationship between tobacco advertising and consumption. A Government commissioned review of the evidence found that “The balance of evidence supports the conclusion that advertising does have a positive impact on consumption” (i.e. it increases consumption). The same review also found that in countries that had banned tobacco advertising the ban “was followed by a fall in smoking on a scale which cannot reasonably be attributed to other factors”.6
ASH Fact Sheet on UK tobacco advertising Planned review date: May 2017

To be fair, TV advertising is hugely expensive. People simply wouldn't bother if it didn't work would they?

YABU and a word of caution.
If you pass your views onto your children they will smoke and maybe take drugs out of rebellion when they are older.
Seen it so many times, including myself and family.
If your kids are going to smoke they will, irrespective of what initiatives are put in place for them not too.

Waits for plentyofpubes to come talk her awesome sense, along with some others on this thread.

I vape around my children, I have no worries they will copy me and I certainly do not believe it's a gateway to smoking the two are very different. One is pleasant with a nice taste and the other is disgusting. If they are the type to vape because it is cool then they are probably the type to smoke because it is cool. I know which one I would prefer them to take up.

Society wanted me to quit smoking. I did, three years ago. Now they want to take my vape away. We already have stupid regulations coming up which will mean lots of vapers might start smoking again. Stick on some tax, no problem, but don't take it away from us. Many of us only managed to quit with vaping but hey, they don't care about that, just the money.

Are they harmless? Well, I can't say yes with 100% accuracy but I can say they are much better than smoking and my health is 100% better than it was.

For the most part I think people just don't just like it, they don't like it that dirty smokers now have a way to quit but they still get to enjoy the sensation of the hand to mouth movement, lovely flavours and a nice throat hit.

yanbu
in the days of old smoking was deemed healthy. I do wonder what the long term affects of ecigs will be

Not allowed in UK to be promoted as a galmourous or fun thing to do or to be seen to be promoting smoking. They also can't say they're safer than smoking, which they are, or that they can help people quit smoking, which they do.
No evidence anywhere in the world ecigs are reversing very positive steps in recent years. Just the opposite, all evidence shows ecigs a gateway out of smoking not in to.

"rather than a ban I think dumbing down of the adverts (so they're seen more as an aid to giving up smoking), and better education is in order"
Yes, I don't disagree with this.

You think the word 'cigarette' is going to cause more people to smoke? Again, I really think you are underestimating people's intelligence here. Other dangerous things are advertised, things that are proven harmful - even adverts for things to help quit smoking are usually filled with visuals regarding smoking, use the word nicotine (the actual harmful bit of cigarettes), talk about cravings. Alcohol adverts are always filled with people out having a good time, that can be equally dangerous as smoking - more so in the very short term since it has a negative effect on the body and can lead to losing the ability to make rational decisions - do you believe they should be banned as well?

NewLife, I don't agree. My parents were very anti smoking and my sister and I have never smoked in our lives. Her children are adults who have never smoked. My 9 year old hates the smell of cigarettes. There's actually lots of evidence that being a smoker encourages children to be smokers. Do as I say not as I do is really not a method of education that has ever worked.

MrsG, actually I do think that care and control needs to be taken over the promotion of alcohol yes.

Singsongsungagain - my grandparents were very anti-smoking, my mother smoked like a chimney. My younger siblings said they hated it, the smell, the money it cost, and yet they now smoke as well. My partner grew up around two heavy smokers and never touched one in his life, never had the urge to. Either people smoke or they don't, but if there is an 'influence', better for it to be vaping that actual smoking any day.

But not ban alcohol adverts, een though they have proven harm, unlike vaping?

Vaping has no proven anything though MrsG. There simply hasn't been enough evidence/research done yet.

Again, I dispute the argument that as a non smoker I am likely to have a chain smoking child. I'm afraid that the statistics just don't support that at all.

MrsG- data re the children of smokers/non smokers:
Parental smoking is strongly linked with smoking in adolescence and in later life and children with at least one parent who smoke are 72% more likely to smoke in adolescence. (RCP, Passive smoke and children, 2010)
If both parents smoke, children are four times more likely to start smoking than if neither parent smokes.
The Liverpool Longitudinal Study on Smoking found 99% of 16 year olds regular smokers lived in a household with at least one smoker.

So what do we do? We find ways to change the original smoker's habits, hence the vaping. It may not have been absolutely proven to be better than smoking, but early indications are good. So smoking may become one less thing that has a bad effect on us in the long term. Now if people could just be stopped eating bad foods, drinking alcohol, driving cars, gambling etc, then we'll all live boring, long lives just as you seem to want.

So...

1. The way newspapers report any of the e cig trials is deeply flawed. As is their reporting of most science.
2. Kids picking up vaping are unlikely to use juice with nicotine in... they go for the really sweet flavours. Last month I had a quitting parent who was deeply amused that his late teen son was choosing a vape flavour to match / compliment his choice of alcohol - wkd or similar!
3. Vapers who used to smoke outside who now vape inside are doing so to normalise their life behaviour - this came out of a questionniare we ran over the last few months. They find they can relax more, feel less stressed, less stigmatised and can 'huff' as and when.

Given that they self medicate when huffing, just as they did when smoking they stop when their nictone craving is fulfilled, they are not taking in more nicotine and, as the 'quit stress' is lessened they feel more in control of their quit attempt.

1. ASH is usually pretty good, but do remember they have a strong, clear agenda... and have already acknowledged and modified part of their stance on vaping as more evidence has become available.
2. Advertising could be a good thing. But I remember the days before adverts had 'wings', so I may not be best placed to see how anything other than a public info style advert would be appropriate. The current NRT ads are getting less infomercial and a little more lifestyle and that bothers me. However

www.nber.org/papers/w12964

This is probably one of the easiest to read studies into how NRT advertising affects youth smoking rates and it concludes The results indicate that NRT advertising has no effect on participation but increases smoking by youth who do smoke. The elasticity of smoking with respect to NRT advertising is about .10 and the elasticity of smoking with respect to price is about -1.03. Since average youth smoking is about 5.77 cigarettes per day, an increase of 10 percent in NRT advertising would increase this average to about 5.82 cigarettes per day. It is also estimated that a ban on NRT advertising would be equivalent to a 10 percent increase in cigarette prices. Which is broadly in line with other major studies.

Would you like nicotine gum and patch adverts banned too? Basically they are similar, but less attractive, forms of the same product, nicotine.

I am happy with both being advertised as to help quitting, although given that e-cigs have not be conclusively proven to aid quitting (yet, studies underway) they are not actually allowed to make claims about their efficacy anyway.

They already can't show them looking glamorous or appealing to youth culture.

I think vaping adverts are going to be banned anyway in the new Tobacco Products directive which now included e-cigs, not 100% sure.

Sing, as mentioned upthread it has already been banned from TV advertising from May 2016, so what you want has happened already.

I don't agree with your subsequent statements at all. 2 billion people smoke worldwide. Half of them, a billion people, will die from this, unless safer smoking methods like vaping are promoted to save lives, and cigarettes disappear altogether.

It may seem reasonable to you to object to vaping because you don't like it either and associate it with smoking, but misinformation about vaping can cost us those billion lives, who may keep smoking if vaping isn't promoted as a safe alternative.

Please consider supporting vaping, as it will lessen the number of people who smoke, saves lives, and reduces the burden on the NHS. If we can change public attitudes to accept vaping, more smokers will be encouraged to quit.

Look, vaping is fun. I gave up smoking 6 years ago without any help because it's foul and really bad for your health.

About 2 years ago I started vaping purely for leisure. I have literally a few puffs at night watching TV, not even every night. because i enjoy it. Is that really so bad?

I also do not believe e-cigs are addictive. Never during the day does it even cross my mind that I would like a puff. And if I run out sometimes I don't bother getting any more for weeks.

That is very different to how I felt when I smoked. Which leads me to believe that it is all the other shit mixed in with cigarette tobacco which causes addiction.

Someone on here said that nicotine itself is "toxic". That's just ridiculous.