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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Should carers stay for the time they are paid?

61 replies

thebridgeovertheriver · 28/12/2015 19:44

Quick query about this, basically, AIBU to think that someone providing a home care visit should stay the length of time they are given?

So someone has fifteen minutes - shouldn't the carers be staying for the fifteen minutes and not running in and out as quickly as possible?

Or AIBU?

OP posts:
Notimefortossers · 28/12/2015 22:16

I understand the Hmm face.

It should NOT make any difference whether the client is paying or funded as to the quality of care they receive. The carer and the agency are being paid to care for them by someone in either circumstance

Dipankrispaneven · 28/12/2015 22:21

I have the reverse problem - DM has carers from a private care company and the company insists that they won't come for less than an hour. The problem is that they are needed twice a day to deal with medication and frankly my mother doesn't want them hanging around that long as most are pretty terrible at making conversation. She has sent them away regularly but of course the company still invoices the full amount.

LuisSuarezTeeth · 28/12/2015 22:24

The funding shouldn't make a difference, but it does.

OP, do speak to the care agency.

LuisSuarezTeeth · 28/12/2015 22:25

Is it a meds/check call?

karalime · 28/12/2015 22:26

My mum went back to being a carer a few years ago. She did it for 2 weeks and then packed it in.

She was paid £6 p/h but only ever scheduled for half an hour. And she had to cover the travel costs, THEN she had whatever she earned taken out of her income support. It ended up costing her money to do it.

She said she would happily do the work for free instead, because the agencies absolutely take the piss so please do not blame the carer.

LuisSuarezTeeth · 28/12/2015 22:27

Dip I promise you, better that than the opposite! Find tasks for the carers to do, whilst leaving your DM in peace.

tethersend · 28/12/2015 22:27

"It should NOT make any difference whether the client is paying or funded as to the quality of care they receive. The carer and the agency are being paid to care for them by someone in either circumstance"

It makes a difference as to how you tackle the problem, though- hence the questions.

SummerSazz · 28/12/2015 22:50

CaptainHammer, i have PM'd you Smile

StuffandBother · 29/12/2015 08:57

But the carers are unlikely be to finishing a call early to fit in a quick game of bingo, more likely so they can get to the next call on time it spend an extra few minutes with someone that needs it ... If your mum ( I think it was your mum op) didn't 'need' the full call, it's not being paid for by you then I didn't think you have an argument. If you are paying then absolutely insist they stay for the full call and ask them to do some light domestic duties such as washing up

Owllady · 29/12/2015 09:49

I agree, get them to wash up, wipe down the kitchen, empty the waste paper bins. Tidy lounge, run Hoover over lounge
Feed the dog?
There must be something they can do?

I agree, how the care is being paid for shouldn't make a difference

I don't know how carers doing these short calls make it pay for them :(

dandelionhouse · 29/12/2015 09:54

If it's not in the care plan, carers are perfectly within their rights not to complete tasks.

Fifteen minute calls are the minimum but yes, some calls take five minutes. So should there be five minute calls? Visiting twelve people to earn about £7?

Obviously not.

When I go to the hairdresser I pay for highlights and a cut. It doesn't matter how long it takes the hairdresser to complete this, I'm paying for it. If she blocks in three hours and takes two and a half I don't need to stand around chatting about my holiday plans for another half hour. She's done her job.

Simple as. It's VERY unreasonable to think of a few more degrading tasks for poorly paid people to do just so you get your money's worth.

thelouise · 29/12/2015 10:28

I am quite disgusted at people thinking those who don't pay shouldn't complain. I could not disagree more. Social care is means tested and while the local authority may be paying some, often people do contribute to their own care and lots of people pay full cost. You (the tax payer) should be encouraging them to complain more as you are contributing to this. Big agencies put in bids for big contracts then shit themselves as they realise they cannot deliver and subsequently, incredibly vulnerable individuals are the ones that suffer. The local authority is paying around £17 per hour to the agency. They are making money and are screwing over; the tax payers, the care workers and the service users. As a social worker who commissions care packages constantly, I want to know what is going on. We log every complaint and do take action where appropriate.

Owllady · 29/12/2015 10:31

They are making money and are screwing over; the tax payers, the care workers and the service users. As a social worker who commissions care packages constantly, I want to know what is going on. We log every complaint and do take action where appropriate.

I completely agree with you thelouise

I'm also boggled as to how domestic duties are degrading. I have care (through an agency) for my dd and if they are booked for 3 hours, they stay for 3 hours and they do things that are appropriate (including making lunch, washing up, personal care etc)

Owllady · 29/12/2015 10:33

And btw, I am appalled at how paid carers are treated in the country. How their contracts are and how little they are paid. I think better contracts and pay for carers is in everyone's best interests. Care is something we will all have to rely on at some point and its really important that the quality is good and the carers working conditions are good too.

dandelionhouse · 29/12/2015 10:59

They are degrading when they aren't needed but are used to prevent somebody leaving after nine, ten, twelve minutes.

BishopBrennansArse · 29/12/2015 11:06

It doesn't make a difference who pays - somebody somewhere is picking up the tab.

I used to do it. Not paid travel time and travel time not built in. Which considering I worked in a rural area and had clients often. 5-7 miles apart was difficult. I never skimped on an individual clients' time but that often meant I was still doing lunch calls at 3pm.

It's ridiculous.

VulcanWoman · 29/12/2015 11:14

15 minutes isn't enough time to do the tasks as it is. If by some miracle they do have some spare time, they could use this time to chat to the person they're caring for.

dandelionhouse · 29/12/2015 11:30

It depends on the tasks, Vulcan

Some tasks are literally - make Mrs X a cup of tea and make her medication available.

Or 'make a sandwich'

Or 'help into nightie, make snack and drink if required.'

If you go into somebody's house and cheerily greet them and make them a cup of tea, if they want to have a little chat that's lovely but honestly, plenty don't. Especially at night time, as I find most are pretty tired and really just want to get to bed.

Fifteen minutes tends to be for medication/make a drink. Usually I would say it's half an hour. That's plenty time for most stuff.

What a lot of people don't realise is that for some houses, you can spend a fair amount of time just getting the keys out or waiting for the person to come to the door if they're a bit doddery! :)

There is no reason why, if getting, signing for and ensuring the person has taken the medication and making them a drink carers should have to stand around talking about nonsense for three or four minutes. If the person wants a chat, that's different but many really don't!

dandelionhouse · 29/12/2015 11:36

And, I have just finished early because one of my 45 minute calls took 15. Not because I am lazy but the lady (in her 40s) said perfectly nicely that she had decided to have a quiet pyjama day and if I could just make her tea and toast that would be great.

Lady in question has a husband and teenage children in her lounge with her, so should I really have sat down for half an hour getting in their way?

I imagine most people would say of course not! That's the thing, with care work, you're dealing with people not clocks. Sometimes we go way over - when someone needs an ambulance usually, although I did once spend ages with a distraught lady in her hundreds (honestly) as her second son had passed away in his 80s. Old age can be cruel Sad I don't begrudge her that time for a second but in turn it would be nice if people could not begrudge me a captured three or four minutes here and there! Times are always an approximation not an exact science and depend on what the person wants and how they are feeling which isn't always going to follow a schedule.

Owllady · 29/12/2015 11:44

Dandelion, to be fair I imagine most clients or their families don't begrudge you anything! I think it's really difficult going into someone's home, well a variety of different homes - all with different needs! And you never know what you will find. But it works the other way, that we let carers into homes so we have to trust them and anything to make it all a pleasant experience works better for me (as I'm sure it does for you). I agree 're the pyjamas lady. I've sent carers home before time too if they are no longer needed. It's what works on that day for sure

dandelionhouse · 29/12/2015 11:52

I think we are agreeing with one another Owl - it's not acceptable to run in and out without doing basic tasks or checking there's nothing else needed but there does come a point where obviously standing around twiddling your thumbs might be a bit silly :)

Owllady · 29/12/2015 11:54

I think we do agree :o

Leafitout · 29/12/2015 12:02

We were on a log in and out system. So when you arrived at the clients home you would ring a freephone number that would register the time of arrival and then you would call again for the departure time. This would ensure that you stayed for the whole duration of the clients appointment. If you rang out early you simply would not be paid. I can see why the carer would sometimes not stay the full duration as the next client who may live ten minutes away, traffic permitting. That you would be expected to get there in three minutes! Sometimes it would be easier to have a helicopter!!

BreakingDad77 · 29/12/2015 12:15

Yanbu, dad is in Hampshire and we are on second set have complained to council about how crap they are, and yes we pay. They weren't staying alloted time or doing what was expected.

Sibling now lives with them as the amount we were paying wasn't justified at all, I mean they have probably have college level education and are being charged out per hour at more then my company does for graduates.

This is what pisses me off about this government, paying some bastard agencies while home carers get pitiful allowances and the staff diabolical wages and conditions. All in the name of getting 'best value from the private sector'.

VulcanWoman · 29/12/2015 12:41

See, I'm just judging on the experience my mum had before she went into care home you see, they gave the carers about 15mins to wash, prepare some food, pills, write their notes, that's if everything went smoothly. There was no where near enough time.

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