Diane Abbott: Shadow Foreign Secretary

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It is now a serious possibility.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-to-dismiss-disloyal-shadow-ministers-in-new-year-reshuffle-a6786956.html

AIBU to be glad at the pitiful state of Labour?

We can have significantly more right-wing policies as a result (assuming Cameron takes the opportunity to be less of a wet), which will result in more prosperity, less poverty and a better country.

Grassroots voters reliance of this is a thing of the past that all changed under Thatcher

The upsurge in party membership would not win us an election, those to the far left are few in number the Socialist Labour Party didn't even get 5000 votes in the election.

It's those that moved over to UKIP, LD (in 2010 election) and floating voters we need back and will only return with a party that is less to the left and with a leader that people can have confidence in, one who can lead the party, one who moves forward is not stuck in the past one who can actually act as an opposition leader not a rebellious whiny backbencher

Democracies require an effective opposition in order to function effectively, they are political parties, not football teams.

For example, I would slash the foreign aid budget by around 95%; splitting the proceeds between deficit reduction, tax cuts and enhanced military spending

Does it occur to you that successive governments give foreign aid not because they're namby-pamby lefties but because there is a distinct political advantage to this country in doing so, notably for sound economic trading reasons? And particularly because if we don't give aid then some pretty unpleasant regimes will step in to fill the gap and that could present a danger to us?

Blairite voters have the option of voting Blue Tory and this is what they now do. A Blairite Red Tory Party breakaway from new Labour would die and that would be pleasing.

The upsurge in party membership would not win us an election

The new members joining also has to be weighed against the tens of thousands that are reportedly leaving too.

Some will have moved over to Tory/UKIP/SD/SNap many are floating voters that make up a large number of voters it's foolish to ignore them

Many who voted for Blair are true labour supporters but not far left labour socialists supporters

The few who support the far left are small in numbers and yes many are leaving the Labour Party and more will

Blairite voters have the option of voting Blue Tory and this is what they now do

I don't know what I will do. I voted Labour all through the wilderness years of Foot and Kinnock. I've never voted Tory in a general election (for Holyrood I vote Labour on the candidate list and Tory on the party list as a tactical vote against the SNP)

I don't think I will vote Labour as long as Corbyn is the leader and I'm not sure who I will vote for.

Yes OP YABU - but you always are.

With any luck we'll get a Corbyn Labour Government and then you'll be in trouble.

To be a real democracy, whatever party is in power we always need an effective opposition to hold them up to scrutiny.

At the moment there is no real opposition. And that's dangerous because it allows the party in power to be as radical as they wish.

"for Holyrood I vote Labour on the candidate list and Tory on the party list as a tactical vote against the SNP)"

And Labour in Scotland object to being known as Red Tories. Amazing really. Just vote for either the red or blue Tories like you normally do. Another (increased) SNP majority will ensure neither Tory party has any power in the Scottish Parliament.

"At the moment there is no real opposition. And that's dangerous because it allows the party in power to be as radical as they wish."

I don't think there's any danger of the Blue Tories in Westminster being "radical" any time soon.

And Labour in Scotland object to being known as Red Tories. Amazing really. Just vote for either the red or blue Tories like you normally do. Another (increased) SNP majority will ensure neither Tory party has any power in the Scottish Parliament.

Until recently in a safe Labour seat which the Labour candidate would take it was pointless voting Labour in the second part of the vote. I cannot abide the SNP so if I can vote against them I do.

That absolutely sums up what has killed Labour in Scotland. Defined solely by their hatred of the SNP to the degree that they prefer the Blue Tories to a centre left opponent in the SNP.

It's no wonder Scotland has utterly rejected Labour.

Why should I not hate the SNP? The SNP want to destroy the UK , lied through their teeth during the independence referendum and are running up a huge budget deficit.

Hatethis, I think there is a school of thought that actually sees Cameron as a 'moderate' conservative.

In my very conservative voting hometown, he is reviled for being too liberal!

You shouldn't hate the SNP because they are a centre left social democratic party, entirely benign on the political spectrum.

Being in favour of political independence for one's own country does not justify hatred. I support independence, do you hate me? I certainly don't hate unionists and I don't detest the Labour Party because of their unionism.

You claim the SNP lied through their teeth. A different opinion from you isn't automatically lying. What we do know though is that Labour lied in order to invade Iraq and were involved in the deaths of 500,000 including many civilians.

The prime reason for the SNP to exist is independence for Scotland. I do not support that so I will never vote for them. Their other policies are irrelevant.

So far as you personally I don't know you other than from your posts on here, quite a few of which I disagree with. If you are a fervent independence supporter it is unlikely we will get on.

But you said you hated them. Even though you're a labour supporter who's policies are supposed to much closer to the SNP than the Tories.

Sad that you think we couldn't get on simply because we have different views on political independence for Scotland. A very strange attitude.

well independence a fundamental policy of the SNP

so understandable why you would rather vote for a party that is against independence who stands a chance of winning rather than a party that has little chance

its tactical voting if voting tory meant it would be keeping ukip out and labour didn't stand a chance I would have no issue voting tory I would hate to but rather they had a seat than ukip

Imagine being a Scottish Labour supporter who would rather vote Tory and have continual London Tory rule than political independence for your own country.

They don't call them Red Tories for nothing.

EnthusiasmDisturbed, you can't fairly equate the SNP and UKIP. One is a left of centre social Democratic Party and the other is a right wing conservative eurosceptic party.

If you vote Labour in the first place it's because of your social values surely. To be willing to vote Tory against a party which shares a lot of your social values is perverse, but at least it lets the cat out of the bag and we know who the Red Tories are.

LordBrightside your repetition of "red Tories" , "your country " and inability to comprehend why I could not support a party whose raison d'être is to break up "
my country" suggests we would not get on if we met in real life.

As far as I'm concerned the SNP is as unpalatable as UKIP and Salmond was as untrustworthy, egotistical and self-serving as Farage.

You're dodging. The issue is not whether you can support political independence for your own country but rather your expressed hatred of those who do.

Equating Salmond with Farage is intellectually cowardly. When has Alex Salmond insulted HIV sufferers?

A Labour supporter who prefers to Tories to the SNP is a Red Tory.

I said I hated the SNP. It is a political party whose main policy I profoundly disagree with. I hate the thought of what the SNP might do.

Salmond and Sturgeon have little respect for the democratic process as do many of their followers. The insults from yes supporters (who were overwhelmingly SNP supporters ) about being too stupid, too feart , too selfish certainly generated in me a profound dislike of the SNP and its adherents who spouted such vitriol.

And "my country" has political independence.

"Hatred" is ridiculous. Do you hate me because I support independence?

What's your country which has political independence?