To think some Mumsnetters have an idealistic vision of Christmas alone?

[winterswan]

Now it's over, I feel I can ask this.

I understand that if you've spent weeks/months shopping, wrapping, saving, preparing and cooking the idea of waking up in an empty house, spending the day pottering about reading and listening to radio 4 sounds nice.

The reality is a bit different. Some points are:

1. Living alone is more expensive than living as a couple. Someone living alone just maybe isn't drifting around a wooden floored penthouse in a white waffle dressing gown but in slightly less desirable conditions.

1. the Mumsnet line is that it doesn't have to be a turkey dinner, just special food you enjoy. That kind of happens every day when you live alone - you always make and choose food you like.

1. As above to films.

1. As above to baths.

1. As above to books.

I will probably get flamed but I've had

So the reality of a Christmas alone is that it can be lonely, isolating and sad.

from Spero

when I want to have a conversation about things that make me said, they constantly want to serve the argument back to me in some sugar coated guff that is about making THEM feel better not me.

It's quite hard to listen to someone talk about feeling sad and I don't think trying to put a positive spin on it is about making the listener feel better, more about not making the talker feel worse.

Again, spero, absolutely spot on.

Was there a barbed message in there Iona? It sounded like you were saying that someone who didn't have the option to spend Christmas with friends deserved it, as they clearly didn't invest any time in friends anyway.

But yes, of course, Spero is also right that some people simply can't deal with someone else's legitimate sadness. It's the 'Oh, why not adopt and/or foster and/or get a dog?' brigade when you've confided about your failed IVF. My mother is a particular offender and says some demented things because she can't look appalling truths in the face - a friend of mine was in end-of-life care and I stayed with my parents in my home country in order to visit her at the hospice. My mother kept saying 'Ah, you never know' and asking whether there was any improvement.

Fizrim.

I don't want people to sit for hours listening to me whine. But when I say something to a friend about how I am sad that there are some things I will never do again, I don't want some 'you can do whatever you want girlfriend! Girl power! Don't be negative! type crap.

I would like 'I am sorry you feel so sad about that'.

For eg I won't ever be having Christmas dinner with my mum again. Because she is dead.

Sometimes we have to be able to acknowledge what is sad about life.

No I agree with Spero.
Saying things back in a sigar coated positive way says more about that person than about the person who has some issues/is sad. It's about people not coping with negative feelings because it triggers their own negative feelings and they don't like it.

I have lots of friends, because I'm a nice person.

Part of being a nice person is not elbowing in on their Christmas with their own family

Yes CastaDiva, that's what I am talking about!

Some people I didn't not mention anything about my lump biopsy a few years ago because I KNOW they would have said 'Ah you'll be fine!' and - because none of them are oncologists - I knew that would give me all kinds of RAGE.

Why couldn't they say 'o gosh that sounds really frightening, I really hope its ok, please ring me as soon as you know'.

It's not hard is it?? Acknowledging that things are sad and difficult for another person will make you both feel better, as does any genuine and authentic communication between humans.

Peddling this sugar coated idealistic versions of loneliness etc helps no one and actually increases the pain of the person who hoped to receive some understanding.

Sorry, confusing double negative there, but hopefully you know what I meant to say...

spero - i agree with you on the whole. However, i think actually it is quite hard to confidently acknowledge someone expressing their sadness and/or fear to you without offering a solution or a generic placation. Unless it comes naturally to you, or you've been in a very dark place yourself and know how it feels.

When i was younger i would have really struggled to do this. Now, after going through some tough times myself, i think i can recognise the need in someone to say how they feel without me finding the answer.

On the other side, I have spent a few christmases alone.

I much preferred being on my own than going round to friends, who were spending Christmas with their own family. I got invited twice by two different friends and I hated it both times. Because Christams is for families and I wasn't part of the family (Even though in both cases, I knew said friends well enough to also know their parents well etc...!)

Its about not allowing anyone the right to be sad about things they are legitimately sad about.

I don't like it. Because I strongly suspect it is about the other person not wanting to have to deal with someone else's unhappiness.

Yes I'd agree with that and I'd say it expands out to long term illnesses and grief too IME people don't really want to deal with other people's emotions.

I agree the problem fixing can be bloody annoying - see it all over the place on here and in RL - just adopt/foster/go on holiday for infertile couples is one I've seen a lot on here recently and seen in RL in DH family.

Perhaps it is just my personal experience but I do know a few people who seem to 'enjoy' wallowing in misery and self pity - there is a huge difference between acknowledging a sad situation, which I trust I do with empathy, and listening to someone who is constantly depressed, miserable, lonely but won't do anything to change the situation.

And some people love talking and going over and over their situations and other's don't - when I have been experiencing painful times (divorce, bereavement, redundancy, serious illness in a child) - I didn't want to spend every minute talking about it - and I recognise that it would bore people rigid, however good a friend they are. Yet some people don't seem to know when to stop - I know someone who talks constantly (and I mean constantly) about her poor health and the fact she has no friends I try and be kind but it is no wonder she has no friends, she cannot focus on anything except herself.

Part of being a nice person is not elbowing in on their Christmas with their own family
winterswan, one of my invitations was from a friend who has a family. There is no need to "elbow in" and I also think that having lots of friends has little to do with being "a nice person". I don't have "lots" of friends. But the ones I have I know I can rely on - and they can rely on me, too.

Egosumquisum, I know that making friends isn't easy for everyone. I don't quite mean the kind of "skill" that comes easily to people: some people make 5 new friends on a train journey from Edinburgh to London. I rather mean that "value shines through" kind of in the long term.

Yes, I agree it doesn't often come 'naturally' to people to have the emotional intelligence to be able to acknowledge someone else's pain without rushing to smooth it away.

It has certainly taken me a long time to be able to do that.

Which is way I like to keep spreading the message. It's one of those things that you can feel very embarrassed and awkward about trying, but once you have done it, its no big deal.

Of course, if you are facing someone who just wants to go on and on and ON about how awful everything always is for them always - I have no sage advice. These people are best avoided. They are energy vampires and they don't want advice or sympathy, they are just a bottomless pit of need and I can't deal with them.

YABU! I did a test run of "family visiting" on Monday, "how bad can one meal be" etc
The answer: that bad.

So I decided to leave the passive aggressive alcohol drenched people to their own devices and had a day of bliss alone with the kids.
1st Xmas without my exH too. Can't reccomend it enough.
Also the original festival at this time of year was the winter solstice, a time of introspection and renewal, gearing up for the year ahead. A perfect time to be alone.

Over new year i will crank up the pace a bit as I have rented a cottage for a week with a load of single friends :)

recommend *

Crushing on Spero!

Sakura - come back in a few Christmases and see if you remain quite so upbeat.

Its great that you do - but the fact that YOU think its been great doesn't mean that everyone else in the same situation will feel its great and nor will they welcome your efforts to try and convince them. Because you aren't living their lives.

I lived alone for 7 years and loved it. Spent many Christmases alone and enjoyed them immensely. It is what suits you. I would still choose that if I could.

The insisting on saying something positive though is annoying.

Soweto- I was just saying it was great for me. I lived many years in a country where xmas wasn't celebrated. Massive weight off my mind, it was.

Spero*

No, if you are talking about spending time with someone who is no longer here then sympathy is obviously appropriate. But if you are talking about spending Christmas Day on your own in general (not because of bereavement) then I can see why people come out with the girl power type stuff because they don't want to be seen to be implying agreement that the day will be less than stellar purely because you are single.