Is this casual racism? Along the lines of ching chong jokes?

[Cimcardishan]

I'm BBC (British born Chinese) and feel that it seems more permissible to be casually racist about Chinese than other racial groups. A few years ago there used to be a Chinese tea advert with a kung fu monk and really bad accent which just felt wrong to me. I don't think that kind of advert would have been made about jerk chicken or naan bread for example.

Someone just posted on my FB jokes with Chinese accent, one liners, eg.Tie my shoe Tai Mai Shu

OK, thats pretty rubbish but it was a long list of them. It wasn't to me personally.

I found it old fashioned and un PC. I feel if someone posted this with Jamaican or Indian accents it would be disapproved of.

Am I being oversensitive?

I very much disagree with Stephen Fry on this. I think he's talking horseshit.

Individual opinions matter- enough of them creates consensus. There should not be pressure on someone to stop feeling offended; it's just that one opinion in itself does not render a word or phrase offensive.

There should not be pressure on someone to stop feeling offended;

Who said there was pressure to stop anyone from being offended?

Language does develop and change:

Up until about 1968 in the US, "negro" and "Indian" were considered polite (n*er was the ignorant alternative) but African-Americans themselves chose first the term "black," then later came "African-American", "Native American"

I remember at a UK school about 1970 where we first sang against racism:
"A class of 40 children ......Indians and half-caste, white and brown they are; but together they know no colour bar"
Well-meant then, but I'd strongly object now if someone referred to me as "half-caste"

Even back in the 1960s, "chinky" was considered insulting to BBC people, only used to demean, just like calling me "wog"
I don't understand why such racist terms are still used by anyone other than uneducated idiots.

"Spastic" was used casually then if someone was clumsy. I think and hope that disablist insult has almost died out.
"Bitch" was far less casually said - for some men now, it seems an alternative word for women.

YANBU

Years ago, I was teaching a class which had one Chinese boy in it. Another child in the class referred to him as 'slitty eyes'. We talked as a class about why it was unacceptable etc. Then I asked the Chinese child how it made him feel when others spoke to him like that. He shrugged and said,

"I don't mind, it happens all the time."

I think that sums up how accepted this kind of racism still is - its younger victims don't even see it as a problem themselves because they are just used to it.

Very sad.

Up until about 1968 in the US..."Indian" were considered polite but then later came "Native American

There are some Native Americans who prefer "American Indian". This is on the basis that using the polite term matters little if that is the only thing that changes.

If I am referring to idigenous North American people I would say "Native American /American Indian ". There is also the option of First Nations.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_Movement
www.aimovement.org/

Westerners are called "big eyes" and "white ghosts" in China. Surely if this is acceptable in their culture, the other way around should be just fine.

I have no idea if what you describe is acceptable or not. You are , in any case, confusing "this happens" with "legally and morally acceptable"

I'm not sure what "other way round " you have in mind but if it's any of the examples which appear in this thread they are neither legally nor morally acceptable in the UK.

No, I was using the exaples the OP herself gave: "A few years ago there used to be a Chinese tea advert with a kung fu monk and really bad accent which just felt wrong to me. I don't think that kind of advert would have been made about jerk chicken or naan bread for example. Someone just posted on my FB jokes with Chinese accent, one liners, eg.Tie my shoe Tai Mai Shu"

I personally consider those quite mild harmless jokes. The "kung fu monk" one uses caricature of the image of a Chinese monk we have in the West. I can assure you there is lots of caricature in Chinese media about Westerner physical features which is done in good faith. Personally I don't consider it offensive, Chinese people do have slanted eyes, shorter stature, dark hair and yellow-tinged skin as a general rule. Caricature uses these things as they would use any other physical feature on people from any other ethnicity. Nowadays it seems no one can make any joke without it being deemed offensive to someone.

Westerners are called "big eyes" and "white ghosts" in China. Surely if this is acceptable in their culture, the other way around should be just fine

Except for "white ghosts" in particular is an insult that has worked its way into colloquial language, in the same way n*gger might be seen in rap music. Just because people use it, I certainly wouldn't.

Yep, auryanne, because as anyone knows two wrongs make a right.

Where I live, anti Semitism is unfortunately very widespread. Elsewhere people don't like Muslims. Lets just balance those out by rolling out racism everywhere instead of tackling the issue, shall we?

Auryanne those are derogatory terms for westerners and the majority of Chinese people understand this. People who use those terms in polite society would be looked down on and corrected. They are not acceptable terms same as Ch**ky in UK. I'm not chinese but worked in Hong Kong in my early twenties so understand some Cantonese
Whilst were on the subject could anyone staging a pantomime production of Aladdin note that actors using mock Chinese accents to be funny is offensive. Went to 2 productions last year( 1 professional and one amateur) and both did this FFS

Yep, auryanne, because as anyone knows two wrongs make a right

Rather more succinctly put than my effort. Thanks altered

BigChocFrenzy

"Spastic" was used casually then if someone was clumsy. I think and hope that disablist insult has almost died out.

It's another example of insults of this nature that came from what were once accepted medical terminology, including idiot, moron, cretin and imbecile. There appears to be no prohibition on using those words as insults now, though.

I think you're over reacting. my dad is Irish and my mum is part Welsh, I get sheep shagger jokes, paddy jokes, bad accents and stuff. Doesn't bother me unless it's done with intent to be hurtful

I sincerely hope you're going to be undertaking equality and diversity training Tali

Ilovesooty what the hell? Because I personally choose not to be offended by things that are clearly meant in jest? sorry I'll start moaning every time a friend makes a joke about my welsh heritage instead.

The OP asked for opinions, I personally don't see the point in getting ones knickers in a twist over something that is meant to be a joke.

Tali the OP is not overreacting.

If you express those views at work Tali there are many settings where you wouldn't last long.

And teaching is one of them. I can see you being in trouble quickly if you define racist comments as "just a joke".

Obviously the only place my friends say that to me is where they know no one who is likely to be offended can hear them. I'm not easily offended, particularly when humour is the intent.

Racism is horrible. Acknowledging funny things about your heritage and laughing with friends is not.

Ego no, I wouldn't. While I'm not bothered to be called "sheep shagger" or "joooones" in a terrible accent I certainly wouldn't say it or expect my friends to to a random Welsh person.

I just think intent matters, and if you know a person meant no harm there's no need to get offended surely?

The sooner you undertake that training the better I would think.